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To read more about Episode 312, visit the main episode page.

Michael Moore [00:00:24] Welcome, everyone. This is Michael Moore and this is my podcast Rumble with Michael Moore. Thanks, everybody for joining me. We are now in what some people call Easter week. You could call it April Fool’s Week. You could call it — well, tomorrow would’ve been, what is it now? It’s ’24. So this would have been the, tomorrow, the 103rd birthday of my mother. Oh my God. So welcome. And what I thought I’d do today is something I don’t think we’ve ever done this before in the, 2+ years, 3+ years of the podcast. And that is to do kind of a a little bit of greatest hits or a compilation. And because we’ve been talking so much about Gaza and Palestine and the — I don’t even want to call it a “war.” A war takes two sides, right? And, of course, this did start with Hamas and their horrific, slaughter on October 7th that I think their side ended that day or the next day, maybe. And then, pretty much everything after that, after the those people who invaded Israel killed about 1200 Israelis, since then, well, it’s almost been six months. Wow. It’s just been a nonstop bombardment — carpet bombing, bombing, shooting, sniping, killing, massive killing. You know, there’s all kinds of numbers of how many. See, they really don’t know how many are dead because they’ve blown up — the Israelis have blown up — so many buildings, tall apartment buildings in Gaza, and they’ve had no time, the Palestinian people, have not had time to get their family members out from under the rubble. So they’ve been laying under the rubble now for six months. So we can’t count them yet. But the the ones that they’re sort of able to count, they’re anywhere from 32,000 to 40,000 dead Palestinians, the vast majority of them women, children and the elderly. So it’s been just an awful thing to all of us to be witness to. We’d like not to think about it because our president, the one that has to stop Trump from winning in November, is the, number one, financial backer and the number one arms dealer, for the state of Israel. So what do we do with that? Well, we’re not going to talk about that today. 

[00:03:21] What what I’m going to do is I’ve been covering this issue probably since the 1970s. I had my own newspaper back in Flint, Michigan, called the Flint Voice. It later went statewide and became the Michigan Voice. And so Michiganders of a certain age will, you know, remember that. But, you know, I’ve written about this. I first went to Palestine and Israel in the, oh, I’d say close to the mid 1980s, maybe? Yeah. West Bank, Gaza. I went back a few years later. So I’m somewhat familiar with the people, the area, what I saw. I’ll talk a little bit about that in some of these. What I’m going to do is share podcasts today, just ten minutes here, ten minutes there, where I’ve been talking about this issue long before October 7th. I’m not going to read what I wrote back in the 70s and 80s. Maybe someday I’ll do that. But, this is just about my podcast and how I’ve been very worried about this issue for the — well, I guess now, 4+ years. The clips from that we’re compiling for today’s podcast start in the year 2020 and go through until, last year. So I really want you to give this a listen, kind of see, it gives you a little bit of a build up to where we’re at right now and where I’ve been with it and what I’ve been thinking and saying about it, you know, for some time. And, you know, I don’t know about you, but I just, I have to tell you, I’ve been so affected by this and, you know, it has a lot to do with a lot of things that I’ve discussed and I continue to write about. 

[00:05:41] Last night, I sent an open letter to Pope Francis. A person that I met, Pope Francis, back, what? Just maybe a little over five years ago and had a conversation with him, and it’s very powerful. And so I wrote about it last night in my note to him, in terms of I’m worried about his health and how long he’s going to be with us. And I, we, really need him to finish, continue to finish the incredible good works that he has done to fix the Catholic Church and make things better for people around the world. And I give him five ideas of — just in case he’s sitting around this Easter week, wondering, what his next job should be — I’ve given him some ideas. So that’s my written Substack that, if you are free or paid subscriber, you got it from me late, late, late last night. And then now I’m posting this here on the morning of April 1st. There is no April Fool’s joke, that you’re going to have to listen to, or wait for it, here in today’s podcast, this is just me giving you some of the things you may have missed in these four years — all spoken and said before October 7th, leading up to this incredible slaughter. And it continues and it’s uninterrupted. And, Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, keeps threatening more and more and more. And Joe Biden, who he’s really the only one in the whole entire world that has the power to stop this, say, within the next hour, literally, by just turning off the faucet, pulling the plug. No more bombs, no more guns, no more bullets, no more nothing until you, Mr. Netanyahu, stop the slaughter. We’re the bank for this, folks — you and me. How much we give each year. Collectively, it’s a lot of money individually. And I’ll break it down and you’ll hear in one of these clips. It’s really not so much per person, but it’s quite a bit when you think of the billions of yours and my tax dollars that have gone to fund this kind of killing, the stealing of land, new settlements that are a violation of every form of international law and violating what our president has told them to stop doing. But they’re not going to listen. They’re just going to cash the checks, baby. So. Yes, I said baby, not Bibi. Bibi is cashing the checks. The baby was to you, the man with the aviator sunglasses. You know who you are and what you have to do. You must have thought it. You must have thought about it during Mass on Easter. Public opinion is completely against this ethnic cleansing. Every poll shows this — it’s not just us in the U.S., it’s all over the world. 

[00:09:09] So sit back and listen to some of our pieces here from the vault of my podcast. And then let’s think about what we need to do, to fix this and what each of us can do. And I’ll talk about that more in upcoming podcasts. But why don’t we get this started with — this is a clip from episode 145. I think it’s back in 2020. My first year of the podcast, when I spoke to the great Marc Lamont Hill, a journalist, an outspoken critic of what has been happening to the Palestinian people and how he lost his job on TV for the stand that he’s taken. So, we’ll start with that, with my talk with Marc Lamont Hill, and then we’ll be back. I’ve picked about 4 or 5 pieces here I want you to listen to. So thank you for that. Thanks for being part of this. And, remember, we’re all in this together. And, my special thanks to those who have been out in the streets, who have taken this protest everywhere. And my very special thanks to the Jewish peace group, Jewish Voice for Peace. It’s an incredible organization. Sticking their necks out. Being brave and fighting for this thing that we’re all hoping for, which is peace, a permanent cease fire and a solution to this awful, awful situation that we cannot let go on now anymore. It’s long enough. Long enough. Over 75 years of this. We can fix this. And there are good people. As Trump would say, there’s good people on all sides. All right, I know, I know, I promised no April Fools humor, so I’ll leave it at that. And now, let’s turn it over to me some, 4+ years ago with Marc Lamont Hill. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:11:28]  If you’re not familiar with Marc Lamont Hill, but you have seen him, you’ve seen him on all the cable news. In fact, he had a paid gig at CNN and at some point — I’m going to say it was maybe, was it a year or two ago? 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:11:46] Two years. Yeah. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:11:47] Two years ago, CNN announced that they were firing him. It was a stunning moment. I couldn’t believe it. And Marc Lamont Hill was fired because he had an opinion. He had an opinion and a belief in the tragedy of what was and has been happening to the Palestinian people for many, many years. Mark, why don’t you tell, just so I don’t botch it? Explain to us why you got the boot at CNN. 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:12:20] Yeah, I can tell you what happened — and people can draw some of their own conclusions, simply because I never got an explicit answer from CNN. But, for years I had been an advocate for Palestinian self-determination, Palestinian human rights. I have, as a journalist and as an activist, tried to create space for a conversation about justice. And I actually was coming back from a delegation that I had led to Palestine. I taken a group of activists and artists to the West Bank, and to East Jerusalem, and also to Israel, to see things on the ground. And I flew back a little early because I was invited to the United Nations to speak at the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. And I sat down in front of the UN, and I gave a speech calling for justice. It’s ironic, cause I normally give speeches off the top of the head, but I said I’m going to write this one down so that I don’t get in any trouble. And, I appealed to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It was the anniversary not just of what the Palestinians refer to as the Nakba, or the Great Catastrophe, that happened in 1948, the 70th anniversary of the founding of the State of Israel but also what Palestinians refer to as the Nakba, but it was also the anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And so I appealed to the Declaration of Human Rights as a way of showing how we value human rights as a global community on the one hand, but we deny them to Palestinians on the other. And at the end of the speech, I said that “we must do what justice requires. And justice requires a free Palestine from the river to the sea.” Of course. When I said that, I was saying two things. One, I was calling for a one state solution. I believe in a singular democratic, secular state for all inhabitants of historic Palestine. That means the people who are currently citizens of Israel, people who are currently citizens of Israel, as Arab citizens or Palestinian citizens, those who are Jews — I believe in a single democratic, one person, one vote, state for everybody. I don’t think anyone should leave. I don’t think anyone should be harmed. But we need a single Democratic state. And I was also pointing to the fact that there’s injustice not just, in the West Bank or just in Gaza and not just in the diaspora, but also even in the State of Israel, where 20% of the citizenry are Palestinian. And I want to point out the inequalities and say we can get justice in all of these places. We can come together and do this. The speech was based on facts. It was based on data. And so they didn’t impeach the speech. They said, the last six words “from the river to the sea” were “intolerable,” that they were “violent.” That they were the same words used by Hamas. And therefore I was echoing, or maybe even showing solidarity with Hamas. It was the most extreme sort of interpretations of what I said, which couldn’t be further from the truth. But this was the kind of dishonest narrative that was being created by people who want to keep the status quo. And so the day after the speech, again, I thought I did good. I got a standing ovation at the UN. I’m thinking I’m having a good day. The next morning, I get a call from CNN, and they said that, “Unfortunately, we heard this speech at the UN, and we can’t have you on air as a contributor anymore.” I said, “Why?” They said, “Because your speech is inconsistent with our values.” And I said, “Can you explain what your values are or what specifically where, you know, where specifically the inconsistency is?” And they said, “No, we can’t elaborate any further. We just… You don’t represent our values.” And that was the end of it. And at that moment, not only was I, dismissed from CNN, but I was nearly fired from Temple University. I nearly lost my — although I’m a tenured professor with an endowed chair, a full professor, all the things you’re supposed to have — Temple also told me that the board of trustees wrote a letter of censure. I’m the first person in the history of the university to get a letter of condemnation. And the chair of the board of trustees said that  my speech was a rant. That it was the most disgusting, the most morally atrocious thing he’d ever heard. What’s funny is this man who said this about me is Bill Cosby’s personal attorney. Bill Cosby, by the way, is also a Temple alum and was on the board. He also never received a letter of condemnation from Temple University. So it just gives you a sense of sort what we prioritize and why. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:17:21] So if you had only said, yeah, see, the the key is you said the word “sea,” that’s the trigger word. If you had said, “a free Palestine from the river to the Starbucks in downtown Ramallah.” 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:17:36] [laughing] Right, that’d be fine. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:17:38] [laughing] You’d still be on CNN. 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:17:40] Right. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:17:41] You know, “to the Walmart just outside Tel Aviv.” That would have been okay. But the fact that you said “from the river to the sea.” But, you know, I’m so glad that you actually explained this because now people listening to this rarely hear about the one state solution. But my good friend, Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar and others have been talking about this for some time because most people who at least are trying to support the rights of the Palestinian people, and that includes a lot of Israelis and Jewish Americans who are sickened by the behavior of the Israeli government and especially the government of Benjamin Netanyahu. But, the two state solution — that’s been the mantra for decades, where there’s Israel and then the West Bank and Gaza become Palestine. And it’s it’s own country, even though it’s divided, I guess that the agreement would have some sort of freeway, some, you know, some… 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:18:48] Right. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:18:48] Like the 405 in between Bethlehem and Gaza City. But basically what you’re saying and what others now believe is the actual, the most democratic — small ‘d’ democratic — and fair way to think of this is that at this point, let’s stop the fighting. Let’s just say this is one country, it’s one democracy. It’s one democracy, one person, one vote. Anybody who is an inhabitant of that — and I guess, you know, the Israeli law allows Jews anywhere in the world to come and be a citizen. So I guess, to be fair, Palestinians who’ve had to leave would have the right of return. I’m just making this up. I don’t know if this is the one state solution, but it just seems to be in my head. If that’s the way it’s going to be, okay, then if this is your original homeland, yes, welcome back. But everybody, it’s one person, one vote, and it’ll be a Democracy and you’ll have majority rule with minority rights, I would hope. Just like we try to do here. Do I have that right? Or can you give a better explanation of the one state solution? 

Marc Lamont Hill [00:20:06] I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, right? It’s a single Democratic state where everyone would have equal rights. Those who are anti this would argue that it fundamentally destroys the Jewish state. That’s the pushback because they’re arguing that if you have the right to return — the law of return has existed in Israel since 1950, but it’s only for returning Jews because it’s a Jewish state. And so a Palestinian who’s, say, lived in Ramallah or in Lod or any of these other places, who were forced to leave in 1948 are not allowed to return as citizens of Israel right now. And so the right of return is a very interesting and complicated thing. In the context of a two state solution, people say, well, yeah, if we have a two state solution, Palestinians have a right to return, and they can only return to that new designated Palestinian state. So if I were born in Jaffa or Yafo, right near Tel Aviv, or if my family were from Jaffa and we would get the right to return, we wouldn’t be returning to Jaffa. We’d be returning to maybe Ramallah. So this becomes part of the challenge because the argument is if you have one state and Palestinians were allowed to return, and those in the West Bank and Gaza were considered citizens, then eventually they would outnumber the Jews and therefore would control laws, the Jewish state would be dismantled and they’d be vulnerable again — this is the the argument. I think that there are ways to imagine a one state solution as I have, where this land that we now call Israel could always be a Jewish homeland — that is to say, you can actually have a constitution rather than what they have now as basic laws, and you could write into it in such a way that Jews who are facing persecution anywhere in the world, could have the right to come to this land. That’s possible without it being a Jewish or any other religious state. But the right of return absolutely, says one person, one vote. There’s a set of laws that emerged a couple of years ago, new basic laws, a nation state law which basically prioritized, one set of laws, one set of people over another one one language over another, etcetera, right? Arabic was no longer a main language, but rather it was a priority language. But it wasn’t an official language. These are things that are creating second class citizenship in the state right now. There are people who would say, “Well, yeah, Israel is a democratic state. If you’re a citizen of Israel, you’re just fine, right? The Arabs you know, they’re in the Knesset, they’re in the Parliament, they’re fine. They get treated the same. Ethiopians get treated the same.” But in practice, the laws which are facially neutral actually have a differential impact on people. So whether it’s the Nakba law or whether it’s admissions committees in neighborhoods — if I want to move in, live in  Galilee in certain places, right? There’s a commission that decides whether or not I’m allowed to move in based on whether or not I fit the social and cultural fabric of the neighborhood. I mean, imagine that in the United States in the 1950s or 60s. So there are laws that we have to sort of dismantle, which we could do if we had a simple one state solution. And finally, the argument against the two state solution cause some people say, “Why not just let me have my Jewish state, and why not let him have his Palestinian state and everybody’s fine.” There are a couple of problems with it for me. One is a practical one. Because of settlement expansion, because of, the sort of stubbornness of the last few administrations in Israel and because of the inability to develop any kind of lasting land for peace deal, the two state solution is dead. It’s logistically not possible. Every two state option that has been offered to Palestinians has been one that is less than desirable. I mean, you can make the case under the Clinton Accords, that that was the best case scenario. But still, these questions around land contiguity, the question of potable water, this idea of access, all these things are things that we have to really wrestle with. But at the end of the day, the two state solution for me is also, I don’t believe in religious states. I don’t believe in Saudi Arabia as a religious state. I don’t live in Iran as a religious state. I don’t believe in any religious state. I believe in secular democratic states. And so for me, I don’t think that Israel should be placed below anyone else — Israel should not be held to a standard that other nations are not, but Israel also shouldn’t be given an exception that other nations are not. 

Michael Moore from Episode 145 [00:24:43] The idea of any religious state. It automatically, just by saying those words, it infers that this is not a democracy because if it favors those who are members of a certain religion — and imagine what that would be like in Gilead here, I mean, the United States of America if one particular religion, decided that this was a Christian nation and the rest of you are second class citizens — it’s no longer a democracy at that point. I’m so glad that you talk about this. Few people want to talk about it. They’re afraid to talk about it. They see what happened to you, for instance, at CNN — and really I’m sorry that you lost your job, but the big tragedy is that the word goes out to everybody else, “Don’t bring this topic up. Don’t get involved in it. Don’t say anything about it.” And I don’t know, maybe I’ve been lucky. I talk about this. I’ve talked about this forever. I first visited, the occupied territories, back in the early to mid ’80s, and, could not believe what I saw, what I experienced, and, have been trying to get people’s attention on this since then. 

Michael Moore [00:26:00] Very, very powerful. Now we’re going to go to episode 190 which I aired in 2021 talking about this issue that is now at the forefront of every day of this world’s life right now — what’s going on in Israel and in Palestine. 

Michael Moore from Episode 190 [00:26:38] In 1985, I received a grant, a journalism grant, a scholarship so to speak, that allowed me to go on a fact finding tour of the Middle East just to kind of get a sense of things. And when we got to Israel and the West Bank and Gaza, it was like — I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Honest to God. It was so sad. And so frightening and so… It just hit me. It hit me like a ton of bricks, that Israel, of all people, would be causing this kind of harm to Palestinians. Making them live like this. No rights. No say. You know, the sense that you’re living in a big prison. Wow. It just kind of… It blew my mind. And two and a half years later, there was an uprising amongst the Palestinians. Kids with stones, throwing stones at the soldiers. It was called the Intifada, the First Intifada. And within a month of it starting, I went with some journalist friends over there to cover it and again. I’m just… Stunning. Getting caught in the middle of Israeli soldiers firing rubber bullets whizzing by me. I can’t believe none of them hit me. But I look back at it now and I’m thinking, “Boy, I don’t know if I would take this kind of risk again.” That was just… That was crazy. And they were killing these kids that were throwing stones at them. And when we went to Gaza — I’ve been to a lot of places in the world, a lot of very poor countries — I’d never seen anything like this. 2 million people living on a very narrow strip of land. And with nothing. And surrounded by the Israeli army. Wow. I just couldn’t get over it. You know, once you see something, you can’t unsee it. Something like this. I had also just begun making my first film, Roger and Me. I came back home to keep working on that and finish it and still rattled by what I’d seen. And when the film came out and, you know, got a very favorable reaction from a lot of people in this country, I got an invitation from the Jerusalem Film Festival to come and show the film. And because these curfews and for the Intifada was still essentially going on, I asked the festival, I said, “Well, I’m honored. Thank you. And I’d love to come. Will Arab people be able to watch my movie?” And they explained, “Well, you know, we have these curfews. So no. If it’s going to be the theater in Jerusalem and they live in Bethlehem, no they can’t.” Bethlehem’s like, you know, less than five miles outside of Jerusalem. “They can’t. No, they won’t be able to see it.” I said, “Well, then that’s a segregated situation. I can’t participate in that.” “Well, there’s nothing we can do about it. I mean, it’s just the government. We don’t agree with this.” And I had to make a decision, and I decided and I just said, “Look, I can’t. This is like an apartheid situation here. I can’t do this. I can’t, you know, they are the majority, certainly in the West Bank and Gaza, clearly. And yet how many screenings of this film will take place in these occupied territories?” “None.” “Okay, well, at least look, if I don’t come, you’re going to have subtitles on it, right?” “Yes. There will be Hebrew and French subtitles.” And I said, “French? What’s that got to do with anything? This is Jerusalem Film Festival. The people who live there are Jewish Israelis and Arab — Arab-israelis or Arab Palestinians who live in the occupied territories. Why don’t you have Hebrew and Arabic on the screen?” “Well, that’s just the way we do it.” I said, “Oh, man, I can’t participate in this.” It’s 1989, right? I said, “I can’t participate in this. Yes, show the film. Fine. But, you know, I can’t come.” They were really bummed out. I felt bad bumming them out, but in fact, by that time, I had already sold the film to Warner Brothers, so I couldn’t pull the film because Warners had already said yes. And anyway, so, oh man, it was in all the papers that I refused to come because Arab citizens, Arab residents, Arabs under occupation could not come to the theater and watch the movie. And even if they could, their language would not be the subtitles on the screen. And so, because I made a point about this, I was pilloried. And most, not all, of the Israeli press, they were very, you know, or at least at the time, had a very strong left wing in Israel and in their press. And there were some were very, very supportive of me. But so anyway, so I didn’t go. The jury — and usually these festivals have kind of an international jury — the jury picked Roger and Me, my film, as the best film of the festival. They gave it the top prize. And of course, I’m not there to accept it, and of course I wasn’t going to go accept it. So that’s another whole round of stories in the press about how I wasn’t  — you know, they’re so generous, they gave me the the top prize and then I wasn’t there. But I will not participate in anything like that, that has segregation that’s essentially based on racism in an apartheid situation. And I just I stuck to that. I took a lot of crap for it. But it’s okay. The next year, I’m at the Toronto Film Festival. And I see the woman who is the head of the Jerusalem Film Festival, and she’s coming toward me, and I’m getting really nervous and going “Oh no, I don’t want to deal with this. She’s going to be so mad.” She came up to me and gave me this huge hug. And I’m like, “Whoa, what’s going on?” And then she sort of, you know, held me there by my shoulders and she said, “Thank you. Thank you for taking that stand. I know you had to suffer for it, but you said the right thing. You did the right thing. And, as a result, we have made changes this year at the festival. First of all the subtitles on the films will not be Hebrew and French, they will be Hebrew and Arabic. Number two, if we find ourselves in a situation that we can’t control because of the army and the police and the right wing government, we will find a way so that the Arab citizens and residents and occupied people will be able to see the films. They are participants in Jerusalem.” By that time, Israel was claiming the whole city was theirs, even though East Jerusalem was essentially, at that time, all Arabic. But of course, they have been kicking the Palestinians out over many years since then. This is 1989, so we’re talking over 30 years ago. And that’s what triggered this thing that happened here in the last couple of weeks, because they were kicking people out of their homes again. They wanted the apartments. They wanted the homes in Jerusalem. Which is supposedly the capital of Israel. And if you live in Jerusalem, you’re supposed to be a citizen, but not quite. If you’re Palestinian, you have a little different form of identity card. You’re color coded if you’re an Arab in Israel or the West Bank or Gaza or Jerusalem. Another whole thing I’m not going to get into. But it’s one of these things you see in an apartheid regime. But she was so grateful that I’d done that. And it helped them make some of these changes that they needed to make. And I was so grateful that she told me that. And, it just felt better, all the heat I had to take, you know, for taking that stand back in 1989. 

Michael Moore [00:36:25] But overall things did not get better. In these 32 years since I won the prize at the Jerusalem Film Festival that I refused to attend, it has just gotten worse and worse and worse. 

[00:36:43] So anyways, before we continue, I’d like to take a brief moment to thank our first underwriter today, and that is Shopify. You know, when you’re selling something online and, you’re an independent podcast, maybe you’re a nonprofit, you’re a growing business, the last thing you want to worry about are the technical headaches that just naturally come to all of us when we’re trying to put something out there on our site and make it available to the public. Well, that’s why Shopify’s all-in-one platform takes all the hassle out of selling what you care about, and letting you handle all kinds of payment methods from your audience all around the globe, so you can focus on the stuff that makes your business, your podcast, your nonprofit, big or small, special. And I know it’s so easy to use because we’ve used Shopify right here on Rumble in the past, and we will continue to use it. So see why 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. is done through Shopify by checking out their $1 trial. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at, and make sure you type “rumble” all in lowercase. And do it now to grow your business no matter what stage you’re in. That’s And thank you, Shopify, for supporting us here on this podcast. 

[00:38:27] Okay. So we’re going to continue on with our look back from different shows where we’ve talked about Palestine here on Rumble since we first came on the air in December of 2019. What I want to do now is let’s go back to episode 248. This is from, 2022, where I spoke with Julia Bacha of Just Vision, which is an incredible organization. They do a lot of great work, a lot of great videos, films. They’re on the ground telling the truth about, you know, a whole bunch of things. So the first part of this will be just a verbal talk to Julia, and then we’re going to get into, how the IDF, Israel’s, defense force, essentially executed a Palestinian American journalist back in 2022. Her name was Shireen Abu Akleh. They did this in the West Bank. And since October 7th actually now, Israel has killed at least — would have been confirmed — 90 Palestinian journalists. Let’s take a listen. This is back from 2022. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:39:48] Another story that you may have missed, and I don’t want you to miss it, on the morning of Wednesday, May 11th, while we were all sleeping here in the United States of America, over in the Middle East, halfway around the world, in the West Bank, in occupied Palestine, an American journalist who is of Palestinian descent, Shireen Abu Akleh, was brutally murdered by an Israeli sniper. She was standing in a small crowd of fellow journalists away from any conflict, wearing the standard uniform that journalists wear over there to identify themselves — a blue flak jacket and a bulletproof helmet, clearly marked “Press.” And in that moment of just standing there talking to her fellow journalists, an Israeli soldier shot her in the back of her neck in that small space between her helmet and the top of her flak jacket. A precision shot. One of her colleagues was also shot in the shoulder during the attack, an heroic citizen tried to retrieve her body and that person was shot at too. Two days later, Israeli forces then, at her funeral procession, kicked and beat mourners with batons — and not just mourners, the pallbearers carrying the casket. And the casket starts to fall. The pallbearers start to fall and they almost dropped and spilled the casket open, and a couple of them caught it just in time. There’s video of this you can watch. This is just absolutely horrific. Shireen was an American citizen, a Palestinian-American. And when news spread of this murder, people were outraged everywhere. Shireen was a prominent and respected journalist all around the world. For 25 years, she told stories about the occupation, about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, mostly on Al Jazeera — which, by the way, is a great news network. She was a beloved figure amongst people in the Arab world and especially in Palestine. In Palestine, I can assure you, she’s known in every household. But this story of a journalist, especially a Palestinian journalist, being slain by Israeli forces is not unique. It’s not an anomaly. Since the year 2000, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Information, nearly 50 Palestinian journalists have been killed by Israeli forces. In just a few weeks after Shireen’s execution, on June 1st, Israeli forces shot and killed 31-year-old Palestinian journalist while she was commuting to work. Her funeral procession was also attacked by Israeli police. Now, because Shireen was an American, many were hopeful that U.S. outrage would spark an unequivocal demand for an independent investigation into her death. And ultimately, we would see some form of justice. Yeah, just go ahead and cue the applause track, because of course, that’s not going to happen. And it didn’t happen. The U.S. State Department did condemn her killing, but they stopped short of calling for an independent investigation. And, of course, their spokesman there at the State Department assured reporters that the Israelis have the wherewithal and the capabilities to conduct a thorough and comprehensive investigation. Israel, for its part, of course, did what it always does deny and deflect, because after all, it was just another dead Arab. But this was a dead American. And so those of you who are listening to this who are Americans, don’t we have a responsibility to demand answers when one of our citizens is murdered by the Israeli Defense Force? On June 24th, the UN released their findings of its inquiry, and it said that it was Israeli gunfire that killed Shireen Abu Akleh. President Biden has refused to call for an independent investigation into her killing. I have to tell you, this story has haunted me ever since I woke up to the news of it on May 11th. You know, either I know personally or I am extremely familiar with following the American and Palestinian-American and Palestinian journalists in the West Bank and Gaza over the years. And I care very deeply about this subject. I have visited the West Bank and Gaza twice, and I have seen firsthand how the Palestinians are treated. The sort of apartheid situation that’s going on over there. It’s sad, it’s wrong. And, you know, as I’ve said before in this podcast, to say that you support Israel, but you don’t support the rights of Palestinians means you don’t support Israel because you can’t have one without the other. And you have no credibility or integrity when you say, “Oh, I support Israel. But to hell with the Palestinians.” Well, then you’re not to be believed because if you were to support Israel, well, then that means you support human life, period. Regardless whose it is. And you don’t support a so-called democracy that has essentially imprisoned a group of people simply because they’re Arabs. I know this whole thing has bothered me and I’ve mentioned it to friends and people and said, “Did you hear the story of this American journalist murdered by the Israelis here back in May?” “No.” It was just a couple days after her death that the Buffalo massacre took place. And of course, again, it’s all the obviously — and it should — all the news goes toward the horrific story of the day, which now it seems like there’s one every day or every other day. And this got lost and nobody talked about Shireen. And I can’t believe that if somebody who gave her life for 25 years of covering the oppression of a group of people, and then she’s killed and nobody knows about it. Nobody talks about it. Our own American government doesn’t do jack about one of its citizens that are killed by the people that we give billions to every year. It just it’s like, come on. Well, anyways, today I thought it’d be a good idea to have my friend Julia Bacha, fellow documentary filmmaker, on the podcast here to talk about Shireen and her own experiences of reporting from Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza. Julia is an extraordinary award-winning filmmaker. She’s the creative director at Just Vision. Just Vision is a nonprofit that, the most important thing it does is it fills a media gap that exists on the issue of Israel-Palestine, and they do it through independent storytelling and engagement. Can we get her on the on the line here and… Okay. Julia, are you there? 

Julia Bacha [00:47:10] Yeah, yeah. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:47:11] Thank you. Thank you very much for coming on my podcast. 

Julia Bacha [00:47:14] Of course. It’s a pleasure. Mike. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:47:16] I want to talk about Shireen. So here we have an American citizen, a journalist, who is essentially assassinated by the Israeli Defense Force and nothing has happened about this. You’ve had so many years of experience of dealing with this horror that exists there in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, Palestine, etc. and I’m just curious what your thinking was when you first heard about her being shot and killed there. 

Julia Bacha [00:47:41] I really appreciate Mike, you bringing Shireen up. It was a huge shock, I think, to anyone who, as you mentioned, has worked in the region to hear that she was killed in the manner that she was killed. There was a sense of horror that took over my body at that moment. If they can kill Shireen like that, then nobody’s safe. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:48:11] Right. 

Julia Bacha [00:48:12] I have been hearing from my colleagues on the ground. You know, my Palestinian producer, Rula Salameh, who I’ve been working with for 15 years now. She has known Shireen since the beginning of Shireen’s career. She gave her her first job at the Palestinian Broadcasting Corporation in the early ’90s. And Rula and all of her colleagues are really scared that this is going to silence all of them. Because they are now so petrified that an Israeli soldier can aim his or her weapon, shoot on the neck, on Sharon’s back, kill her with the cameras having been rolling just moments before with several of Sharon’s colleagues who are journalists as eyewitnesses, saying, clearly, what have happened. At this point we’ve had CNN, New York Times, Associated Press, newspapers, and, you know, television channels that are not known for digging deep when it comes to Israel and Palestine, saying that in all likelihood Shireen was not only killed by an Israeli soldier, but she was targeted by an Israeli soldier. And yet, the Biden administration, dealing with an American journalist who was seemingly assassinated, washes their hand and say, “We trust Israel to conduct an investigation.” Meanwhile, Israel has already declared that it is not conducting a criminal investigation because to them there are only two options for what may have happened. Number one, she was killed by Palestinian militants. Number two, if it happens that she was killed by an Israeli soldier, it was an accident because the Israeli soldiers must have been trying to kill Palestinian armed militants shooting at them. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:50:19] Right. 

Julia Bacha [00:50:19] And so for journalists on the ground, when they see that happening to Shireen, who is the, as you mentioned, the most beloved, well known, respected has been doing this work for decades now, for this to happen to her blatantly and for nothing to happen, for the world to stay silent, for the American administration to do nothing is terrifying. So this is a tragedy not only for the life of Shireen, but for the life of all journalists on the ground trying to cover the actions of the Israeli government. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:50:53] She is, or was, an American citizen. Bottom line. What happened a few years ago with Khashoggi, with the Saudis, he was an American resident and worked for the Washington Post. That sent enough of a chill down people’s spine for a while, at least until that was essentially forgotten and brushed aside. I don’t want this to be brushed aside. I don’t want this to be forgotten. I want an answer. I want to stand up for my fellow American, Shireen Abu Akleh. I want this to be investigated. I want answers, and I’m not the only one. But they’re benefiting from the fact that our attention is so much on the horror that’s been coming out of Washington, D.C. this last month or two that we’re not going to know about this. We’re not going to talk about it. We’re going to forget about it. I mean, you’ve been, you know, not only a filmmaker, but also an important organizer on this issue for many, many years. What is it that people can do, instead of just listening to you and I talk, get angry, but then ultimately feel hopeless and helpless? 

Julia Bacha [00:51:58] Yeah. I felt for a moment there, right after Shireen’s killing, that something would be different this time. And, as you mentioned, it’s so hard to keep people’s attention on any one particular matter these days, particularly one that concerns a foreign country because our own country requires so much caring right now. But one thing happened last week that rekindled my hope, and it was the fact that 24 Senators signed an open letter calling on President Biden to ensure the direct involvement of the United States in the investigation of the killing of Shireen Abu Akleh. And even though that seems small in the reality of Washington, D.C., and how it relates to Israel, it’s very significant. AIPAC, which is one of the main lobbies for Israel in Washington, DC, lobbied really hard against this letter. And, you know, from people that have experienced that type of lobbying, there is, you know, direct threats that opponents will be supported. AIPAC actually has been known to now be supporting Republicans who actually participated on January 6th, meaning they’re funding Republicans who supported the insurrection on January 6th. And it’s very important for these Senators, this 24 Senators who signed this letter to hear from their constituents, saying that they support them there because they are going to get from the lobby a lot of attacks. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:53:40] Right. 

Julia Bacha [00:53:41] And it’s really important for the Senators who signed a letter for the House of Representative members who signed the one on May 19th, also calling for, in this case, calling for an FBI investigation on her killing. The U.S. needs to be involved. I think that’s… You know, sort of galvanizing around a goal I think it’s important when you’re trying to create action. And in two weeks, President Biden is going to be visiting Israel. And on the statement by the White House, it says that President Biden is coming to the region to reinforce the United States ironclad commitment to Israel’s security and prosperity. And, you know, there was a lot of criticism of Trump, the Trump administration’s approach to Israel and Palestine. And, I think there was, you know, maybe a naive expectation that Biden would bring a little bit more of a human rights lens back to how it looks at the Middle East, but it hasn’t, and it won’t do it unless Americans show that they want the administration to do it and that they care enough. And so I would start by, you know, asking your Senator, your Representative to join these letters that were sent. I think the more pressure that there is in the run up to this trip for making it clear that people are waiting to see if Biden is going to bring this up and how he’s going to bring it up. I think that is one thing that people can do. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:55:23] He has to do this. I mean, boy, for our own president can’t stand up for a fellow American who has been killed — a journalist who has been killed, not by accident appears to be a direct decision, to pointed gun at her and shoot her. So I know I’ve seen this firsthand. 

Julia Bacha [00:55:43] Yeah.

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:55:44] My first trips to the occupied territories back in the ’80s, israeli soldiers firing at that time rubber bullets at me and others who had gathered in the West Bank. And we were there as journalists. We were covering what was going on, and they didn’t care that we were journalists. To have a bullet whiz by your face like an inch or two away is a frightening experience, to say the least. And then to see people actually harmed, even with rubber bullets killed. Well, you don’t forget it, you know. You know what I’m talking about. Because you’ve been there and you’ve risked your life to bring us these truths. And to all the other Palestinians and Israelis who have taken that same risk, I have such admiration, and I honor all of you who do this. And tonight, at least as we are speaking here on this episode, I do it in the name of, Shireen. I want to see the killing stopped and I want to see the oppression ended. I appreciate you coming on, you know, talking about this. 

Julia Bacha [00:56:47] I appreciate you so much, Michael. Thank you for not letting the story die. 

Michael Moore from Episode 248 [00:56:51] I don’t know what else to do. I can’t, you know, look, we all have a conscience, and we have to follow that. And, you know, most people are good at their core. And when they see injustice, they don’t like it. They don’t like it. And I’m counting on that, both in Shireen’s case and all the incredible issues that you continue to cover. So thank you for that and my appreciation to Shireen’s family, her American family, her Palestinian family. And, let’s make sure that we all carry on that work and let’s make sure there’s justice when it comes to her death. 

Michael Moore [00:57:35] We have one more, underwriter for today’s episode. So I want to thank them, for backing us here, and then we’ll get right back to this compilation show of some of our clips from past episodes where we’ve dealt with the issue of Palestine. 

[00:57:53] \But the underwriter I want to thank right now is Moink. Did you know that just four companies control 80% of the U.S. meat industry? Well, our second underwriter today, Moink — that’s Moo and Oink combined — they’re fighting back against Big Agriculture to bring you better, more sustainable meat. Now, Moink was founded by an eighth generation American farmer, and they deliver grass fed beef and lamb, along with pastured pork and chicken and sustainable wild caught salmon from Alaska direct to your door, all while helping family farms become financially independent from Big Ag. And unlike your local supermarket, with Moink, you have total control over the quality and source of your food. So keep American farming going by signing up at Do it right now and listeners of this show will get — are you ready? Wait for it — free bacon for a year. That’s one year of the best bacon you’ll ever taste, but it’s only for a limited time. So, That’s And thank you Moink for supporting us here on this podcast. 

[00:59:39] Next up, I’ve got a brief clip from our live Rumble episode that we did in March of 2021 where my dear friend, the courageous Representative Rashida Tlaib, representing the Detroit Dearborn area in the United States Congress, where she talks about not the two state solution, but the one state solution, something I brought up a few years ago with Marc Lamont Hill. Rashida gets into considering maybe another alternative to what, you know, we’ve mostly been talking about for a decade or two here. So let’s turn it over to her. This is going to be myself with Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib. 

Michael Moore from episode 169 [01:00:25] Well, you’ve got a vote. Your aide just told me you’ve got a vote coming up here shortly. So, just if you could, because I  told Roger that I’d ask you your opinion on this, and I know it’s a long thing and we don’t have the time to get into the whole story of it, but, you know, what does need to happen now? You know, Netanyahu is still in charge, still calling all the wrong shots to oppress the people who live there. What can we as Americans do? What can Congress do? And how do you feel about that issue I raised with him about the two state versus the one state solution? 

Rep. Rashida Tlaib [01:01:03] Yeah. So, you know, I think it’s public knowledge that I support a one state because I grew up in one of the most beautiful blackest cities in the country, in the city of Detroit, where separate but equal didn’t work in our history here. And I just I can’t imagine, how it’d work, especially as small a country as Israel and Palestine. So I, you know, one of the things I’ve been trying to do desperately is just put a human face to what it feels like to be Palestinian under occupation, not having access to water to, you know, be able to thrive economically. The fact that my grandmother, I mean, she has a checkpoint sometimes in front of her house just to leave. It’s a farmhouse, but no houses next to it.

Michael Moore from episode 169 [01:01:45] She’s a huge threat, you know, your grandma. How old is she? 

Rep. Rashida Tlaib [01:01:51] [laughing] Oh, she’s now, like, we think 83. Because back then you were born in the house, and, you know, we know that she’s around 83, based on… Yeah, but she is definitely, you know, just hanging in there, but she’s also just — she wants human dignity. All she knows is her land in Palestine, the farming, the people. And, it’s so traumatic, but also just unbelievably painful to feel less than in your own country. And they just, you know, many of the Palestinian family members I have there just want equality and they want to be seen. And again, growing up, I think understanding what continues to happen to my black neighbors and knowing that that kind of oppression, you know, won’t lead to actual, you know, viability for everyone in the region. Everybody’s impacted when we deny people access to opportunitie. When we deny people equality, everyone hurts. And so I hope Israelis understand that when they continue to, you know, enhance and enable someone like Netanyahu, who runs on anti-Arab rhetoric and violence towards Arabs. It’s really painful to kind of see that enabled. Yeah. I mean, the racist rhetoric coming out of his administration — it’s hard to hear, even for me all the way here in the United States. But just for him to say the things that he says, again, making Palestinians as if they’re less human, it’s wrong and we shouldn’t be funding that kind of, you know, rhetoric or those kinds of systems. 

Michael Moore [01:03:31] Actually, let’s go back now to episode 190, this was also in 2021, because I was talking about back then something that I think still rings true, how it’s the younger generations both here and in Palestine and in Israel that will bring peace to us in the future. 

Michael Moore from Episode 190 [01:03:54] Sadly, things have not gotten better for the Palestinians. The young people of this country, and in Palestine, and young Israelis and young people around the world have had enough. They’ve seen enough. They know the truth. And Bibi, Bibi Netanyahu, you know, it ain’t gonna work anymore. You overplayed your hand. You overstayed your welcome. And now the young people around the world are not going to support you, are not going to tolerate this any longer. The young people of the United States who have led these movements — from the Women’s March, to the March for Our Lives with the Parkland High School kids, to the last election here and getting out the vote and then taking over the streets last year after the murder of George Floyd — young people, young teenagers, adults, said enough is enough. And the treatment of George Floyd, in their eyes, correctly, and mine, and many of you are listening to this, the treatment of George Floyd, times that by 5 million. 7 million. And there you have the situation in Palestine and Israel. Or even an Arab citizen who has full citizenship in Israel, still treated differently because he’s an Arab. She’s an Arab. This will not continue. No one’s listening, Bibi. “We have a right to defend ourselves.” Yes. Thank you, General Custer. Yes, you do, actually, because you are human and you want to live. “It’s complex. You don’t know the history.” No, but I know what my own eyes saw last night. I saw them pulling the four-year-old girl out of the rubble. The rubble that you created. I saw how you used the press. Your PR guy held a press conference to say that you were sending in the ground troops into Gaza, which scared people in Gaza and so they went to hide in their makeshift bomb shelters, these tunnels that they’ve got, and you somehow, because you guys are so good at this Bibi, remember, you’re an American. You know how to kill. Cause we’re great killers. And you did it, baby. You used the press because you wanted Hamas and the Palestinians and everybody to hear that you were crossing the border and coming into Gaza with the tanks and the soldiers. And so everybody ran to the tunnels to hide, to try to hide from the troops that you got the New York Times and all the Israeli press and everybody to report that this invasion had started. Remember reading this everybody a few days ago before the weekend? It was all lie. They made it up because they knew they would scare the Palestinians into the tunnels, the tunnels that they were going to send these bombs into to asphyxiate and to kill God knows how many people. We don’t know these numbers yet. We’ll know this eventually. How many hundreds? Eventually. How many thousands? God forbid. Please, no! That were killed because you used and the press are so easily duped because if the Israeli spokesman is saying it, it’s got to be true. It sounds so believable. And the Palestinians believed it. And they went into the tunnels and that’s where they died. And then, of course, a couple of days later, your PR guy, your press person, whoever that is, had to apologize for the little ruse that they created so they could smoke them out. And then we watched those apartment buildings crumble in the exact same way that the Twin Towers crumbled. And it sent a chill down my spine to look at that. This is not the way I was raised to believe things about Israel, and I’ve tried to make a separation in my head because I know so many very, very good Israelis. I mean, the Israeli human rights group, and I’m probably going to mispronounce, the name, but I believe it’s B’Tselem is how it’s pronounced. B’Tselem, which is Israeli, an Israeli human rights organization, has called the Netanyahu regime an apartheid government. It has turned Israel into an apartheid country. That’s the Israeli’s saying that. And then, of course Human Rights Watch, the international organization, put out a 200 page report this year outlining every aspect of how Israeli apartheid works. It’s not South Africa. It’s a 21st century version. It’s the smart way to do apartheid. And it’s a stunning document. You can look it up online. So many people want this to end. But let’s stop with the false equivalency here. And whatever mistakes Palestinians have made, Palestinian leaders have made, you know, I’m a pacifist, so no, I would not be firing rockets. That’s just me. But I understand why. I understand why the Indians fired their bows and arrows at General Custer and any of the cavalry that was coming. Because that’s what people do when they’re put in that situation. And it’s amazing that people in Palestine can even think clearly. Because when you’ve been under this sort of attack since 1948, when you’ve been put in a prison, and then the people running the prison call it a democracy — wow. You don’t know which way is up. Is white, black and black, white. All of that, it’s just… Oh, man. No. Yes. Everybody. President Biden, what took you so long here? And you still haven’t done it. You gotta pull the plug, Joe. You gotta pull the plug on Netanyahu. You got to say, “We’re not sending any more money until you stop this right now.” They just announced yesterday a $735 million arms deal. We’re sending the Israelis $735 million worth of new weapons. Who are we? Look, Joe, I know, I know. It takes a while. It’s taken awhile. You know, of course, you’re not, Bernie. But that’s okay. You’ve done some great things here, and now you need to listen to Bernie about this. He’s written about it. I’m sure he’s talked to you about it. You know, and you’re a good Catholic. Back when I visited, the first time I visited Palestine, it was pointed out to me that somewhere between 20 and 30% of Palestinians are Catholics. Catholics or Christians. Most people aren’t aware of that. Most people aren’t aware that the Muslim Bible, which is called the Qur’an, has a whole chapter in there devoted to Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the Qur’an. Because they worship her. They honor her. We don’t. In the Christian Bible, there’s no book called Mary. But it’s in the Qur’an. We are so ignorant and removed. And this is why we get into all this trouble, and we let our government do things in our name with our money that we never should let it do. $26. That’s how much I gave this year as an American and every other working American who paid taxes. And right now. When you see this suffering, you’re causing it. My friends who are Americans, who are listening to this and I’m causing it. I’m paying for it. I paid $26 for it today, and I get a whole year’s worth of oppressing the Palestinians for that. That is pretty — that’s quite the deal, isn’t it? Most of you know I’m being sarcastic, right? Yeah. It sickens me. I’ve been sick here for a week watching this, and there’s so many other things we need to talk about and deal with, and we’re not gonna have time to do that today. But I had to not only be very clear about what I think we need to do, and what President Biden needs to do. And we need to put Bibi, Benjamin Netanyahu, on notice that his time is up. The days are over. The world won’t tolerate this anymore. The Palestinian people are not going to stop. They’re not going to tolerate it anymore. So we have to find a different way. And one of the things we’re going to do is we’re going to take away — we’re not going to be the bank anymore for you. 20% of the Israeli military budget is funded by us. One fifth of it is just covered by us. That doesn’t even count all the other things that we send them. Do you realize that 3/5 of all military aid that we give to other countries in the world, 3/5 of it goes to one country, Israel. Come on everybody. This has to end. I went there nearly 40 years ago. I’ve had to live with what I saw and what I experienced. I’ve been writing about this for almost 50 years. And I’m done. I’m tired of it. I’m sick of it. And we need to make our voices heard because we are the funders of this oppression. We are the funders of this slaughter. We are the funders of this theft, of kicking people out of their apartments or bulldozing their homes. We — you and me. Something to think about on Tax Day. And you could say, “Well, hey, Mike, I mean, I only gave $26 to all this madness. I mean, you know, how much real harm did I cause with my $26?” Well, quite a bit, my friend. $26 from 155 million of us went to this. Collectively over $4 billion. No, not another dime. Let’s call it what the Israeli human rights organization called this: Apartheid. This is an evil regime run by Benjamin Netanyahu. No more. And we’re not going to believe the lies anymore. None of the propaganda. All the stuff we’re told. “Oh, well, we had to blow up the building that the Associated Press was in because Hamas was using them as cover, because there were militants in the building.” Oh come on. First of all, if you’re Palestinian, it’s redundant to call you a militant. You’re a people that have had your land and your homes stolen from you. And you’ve been part of a great erasure over the last 50, 60 years. So. No. Yes, of course there are militants everywhere. There’s militants in my apartment building, you know, don’t use that as an excuse, Bibi, to bomb the building here. But I’m just saying don’t believe any of this stuff you’re being told this week in the press. The media, especially the American media, has been so hoodwinked by this stuff for now, for so long. All this, you know, they’re firing these rockets into Israel from that building. And so let’s kill 40 people in the building. But were rockets being fired from there? I don’t believe any of it. In the same way, I don’t believe the Minneapolis police press spokesperson on the night of George Floyd’s murder — you know what I’m talking about, that press release they sent out saying how he had a medical condition and died. Remember that? They’re liars. They’re all professional liars. It’s not just in Israel. It’s this country. It’s around the world. And if they’re police and if they’re military, you know, again, we need to go back to the old adage of everything that they’re telling you is a lie. Nothing they say should be believed unless it’s proven that they are telling the truth. But that you have to first accept. You have to begin with accepting that what you’re being told is not the truth. Make them prove to you it is the truth. They’re going to have a very hard time doing that. So don’t fall for any of the stuff that you’re hearing this week. As I’m recording this now, ten Israelis have died and I think close to 300 Palestinians. There’s a false equivalency there. And let me tell you something though. Every single one of those ten Israeli lives matter deeply. It’s not a numbers game. But to hear the Israeli government and Netanyahu talk about like it’s some Even-Steven thing — are you kidding me? One is a nuclear power and the other side has bows and arrows. And there’s a reason they’re firing those arrows.” It’s complicated, Mike.” Yeah. It’s complicated only in the sense that we have to figure out how we are going to stop funding this insanity. President Biden, or anybody who’s working for him that is listening to me, you do not have our support. And we speak for millions and millions of Americans. The same millions, actually, who would give their lives to make sure that there never will be another Holocaust again. Who will stand for anybody who’s Jewish and who’s being attacked because they’re Jewish and who’s is suffering any form of bigotry. We’re the same people. And the reason our position has integrity is that what we would do to defend the Jewish people on this planet, if we don’t do that for the Palestinians, for others, especially those who are being harmed by the formerly oppressed people, then we have no integrity. So, if you support Israel, then you will support the end of this slaughter, and the end of them living in a prison called Palestine. 

Michael Moore [01:21:01] And there you go. Oh, man. It seems like I’ve been either talking about this issue or writing about it since I got out of high school, you know. And part of that was because those of us who grew up in southeastern Michigan and Flint and Detroit, Ann Arbor, we, our neighbors, our friends and our classmates — many, many, many Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, Palestinian Americans and so the propaganda that we get fed us Americans about who are supposed to hate really couldn’t get through to us. Growing up in that environment, we knew them and saw them and lived with them as human beings. So it’s one of the reasons, I guess, I don’t know, I’ve cared about this for a long time, and I also cared about it because being in the postwar, post-Holocaust generation, growing up in the ’50s, you couldn’t ignore when it just happened a few years earlier. And the slaughter of millions and millions of Jews all throughout Europe. It’s… The madness of all of this has gone on for way too long, and President Biden, please, please, you hold the power to turn this thing around. There are millions of good Israelis, good people in Israel. Who don’t want this either. They want the hostages back. Palestinian families want their prisoners that are in Israeli jails back. And nobody wants this to continue. Only the few crazies in the Netanyahu War Cabinet. The total insanity of people going into that techno concert down in southern Israel and just slaughtering a bunch of young people who are listening to music. It’s all madness. It’s all madness. We have the power to stop it. We know the right thing that we have to do. And President Biden, you have to do your part. Why are you risking having even 10,000 people not show up, who are just deciding, they’ve already decided they’re not going to vote because of this? Hillary lost Michigan by 10,000 votes. Don’t make the same mistake. Please. 

[01:24:08] Again, my thanks to all the people that are trying to help out here, all the different Palestinian groups. The Jewish Voice for Peace. Thank you so much for your good work. Anybody can join, by the way, Jewish Voice for Peace. You don’t have to be Jewish. They allow us, those of us not Jewish, in the auxiliary branch — I’m just kidding. I don’t know, but all I know is I send in my dues, and now I’m a member and I participate, and I care deeply about the well-being and the safety of Jews around the world. I care deeply about the rise of anti-Semitism. And the weird hatred that has gone on for, well, in their case, literally thousands of years. All of this must come to an end. Thank you, my friends, for listening to this compilation show, here today. I’m Michael Moore. My thanks to my executive producer, Angela Vargos. Our editor and, great friend, Donald Borenstein, who put together today’s show and who’s also done his own great writing about what’s been going on since October 7th. Thank you, Donald, for that. And thanks to all of you who participate and listen to this podcast. There are more of us, than there are of them: those of us who want peace; those of us who demand peace and an end to the slaughter. We’ll talk soon.