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To read more about Episode 319, visit the main episode page.


Michael Moore [00:00:00] Hello,  this is Michael Moore and this is my podcast.

Glinda [from The Wizard of Oz] [00:00:09] Let the joyous news be spread, the wicked old witch at last is dead.

[ MUSIC: Ding Dong The Witch is Dead ]

Michael Moore [00:00:43] To be honest, nobody thought that the Wicked Witch, or in this case, Donald Trump would be over, gone. And he’s not. Let’s just get that straight right from the beginning. He’s still with us. He’s going to be with us. But did anybody, anybody — be honest — I mean, didn’t you think before the trial and during the trial and when it went to the jury that of these 12 jurors, one of them, that’s all it would take, just one to create a hung jury. All 12 had to vote unanimously. And then there’s 34 counts, and they had to vote on each one of those 34, all 12 of them. And to convict him, they needed a unanimous vote. And I know, you’ve been thinking about this the last few days. I mean, let’s just be honest, all of us were sure there would be at least one MAGA dude on the jury. We didn’t know the names of the jurors or anything about them as it should be, but they listed their professions. On this jury there were two attorneys, two Wall Street guys — one said he was an investment banker, and the other said that he had worked in wealth management. Okay, that’s four of the jurors right there, two Wall Street, two lawyers, two engineers — different, you know, fields or whatever, but, you know, engineers. Now we’re at six. There was a physical therapist. There was a speech therapist. There was somebody who said he worked in commerce, somebody who said he was a salesman. And then there was one teacher. Okay. So my first thought was a few weeks ago: Well, there’s one person from the working class, he only needs one investment banker, one attorney, one engineer, one salesman, and he’s not going to be convicted. But then other things started to come out, you know, if you read a little closely into the questions that the jurors were asked. Like, for instance, of the 12, only two were from New York City. It’s a wealthy city in the sense that there are a lot of millionaires who live here. But out of 8.5 million people, there’s a million, at least, who live under the poverty line. There’s a million who go to bed hungry every night. There’s a few hundred thousand who are homeless or near homeless. I mean, it’s diverse, economically diverse. It’s a rough city. It’s a lot of people who are new here. A lot of people that can’t speak the language. You know, and you’re starting to think, “Well, this is good or bad for us?”. 

[00:03:49] But I think the thing that got me was they asked each of the jurors when they were deciding who could sit and who couldn’t on the jury, they asked them, “Where do you get your news every day?” Okay, so right away, one guy goes, “I don’t get any news. I don’t watch the news. I don’t read the news. Nothing.” Okay, well, he might be the most impartial juror. But then it was all over the map where they got their news. They’re New Yorkers so the daily paper here that five of the 12 read was The New York Times. Okay. But one read the New York Post. Only one said they got their news from MSNBC. That same person also said that they watch Fox. They watch both. Okay. You know, and you’re going, “What is that? What does this mean?” But then juror number two, the guy who was the investment banker, he says he gets his news mostly from Truth Social — Donald Trump’s social media business that he owns. Truth Social. And somehow he was let on the jury. And I was like, “Well, that’s the end of that.” Right? I mean, if you were following this a few weeks ago, Trump only needs one vote on the jury and he’s got an investment banker on the jury who says he gets all his information from Donald Trump. I mean, we could have just stopped watching TV at that point. The last two months we could have, you know, just gone on some long hikes, catch up on some things we’ve wanted to binge on for a while. We could have done any of a number of things, just don’t watch the stupid trial. 

[00:05:44] Anyways, it finally goes to the the jury. And the first day, they were just supposed to get the jury instructions from the judge. He got through that pretty quickly, and then he said, “You guys want to start deliberating?” Because they weren’t going to start till Thursday and this was Wednesday. They said, “Yeah.” And they go back in the room and they, on Wednesday, late afternoon they put in like 4+ hours into starting the deliberations. Okay. Well, nothing happens. You know, they’re probably all just getting to know each other. A lot of juries take a straw poll right away just to kind of see where the room is at. They come back in the next morning on Thursday morning and within 4-5 hours, somewhere around 3:30, the judge is thinking, you know, I’m going to just send them home for the day. Come around 4:00 he gets ready to bring them back in and one of the bailiffs tells him the jury has a note they want to give him, and they give him a note. And the note says, “We’ve reached a verdict.” What?! So they’ve been out maybe for nine hours or so between the two days, and they’ve come up with a verdict for all 34 charges. Well, there’s a lot of paperwork to fill out. The judge goes, “Well, we have a verdict.” Tells the courtroom, “It might take us 20 to 30 minutes to get it together, and they got to sign this and that, and we’ll bring them back out.” And then for the next 2 or 3 minutes: Charge number one, guilty. Charge number two, guilty. Count number three, guilty. Count number four, guilty. It just kept going. Right around number four, according to the people that were in the room — by the way, all trials should be televised. Or at least the audio. This is not right that the public can’t see this. We’re way beyond that now. Everything they used to be worried about when I was growing up. Oh, you don’t want cameras in the courtroom. It’ll be chaos and disruptive. It’s actually been educational and important for us to see how our justice system is working. So maybe someday, New York State, you can get it together and do this. But they go through all 34. It’s not only unanimous where all 34 have the jury. It’s a majority of the jury. So for 34 times they have to ask the jurors, is this how everybody everybody agrees? Nobody objects. Everybody says, “Yes.” So what is that? 34 times 12 votes. So that’s 364 votes and they’re all the same. From a jury. Understand, juror number two, the investment banker — he voted guilty. The guy who gets his news from Trump’s truth social. 

[00:08:57] In fact, I did a quick search online for each of their professions to see in New York City what does the average investment banker make? What does the average teacher make? What does the average physical therapist make? Of the 12 jurors, eight made over $100,000. The average of them was about $140,000-$150,000 a year. Okay? If you just know the statistics, you know, for the country, in the United States of America, to be in the top 20 percentile of earners — in other words, you are in the top 20% of Americans who earn the top money. If you make anywhere, I think what it was, like anywhere over $140,000 a year, you are in the top 20 percentile. You are amongst the wealthier or wealthiest people in this country. That jury, eight of the 12, we’re earners in the top 20 percentile of this country. 

[00:10:16] And you know, when they were saying last year, “Trump’s now going to have a jury of his peers.” I’m thinking, “Peers? How do you get to be a peer of Donald Trump? Have they found 12 fake billionaires? I mean, who’s a peer of his?” In his first and only a term, thank God, the Washington Post did a study and he was up to lying I mean hundreds of times a day. And I think what the total number of lies he told — these are the lies we know of because they were recorded — was somewhere over 4000 lies in his one term as president of the United States. Actual lies. Verifiable lies. And he, for his whole life, has gotten away with everything — from the first time that he was charged by the way, which is, I think, back in the 1970s. 1973, something like that. If you want to look up the case, it’s U.S. versus Donald Trump, Fred Trump. He was in his 20s. He was helping run his dad’s rental corporation. His father, Fred Trump, owned at least 4000 apartments in New York City, mostly in Brooklyn and Queens. 4000 apartments. And Donny, Donald Trump, then in his 20s, was running this. And the U.S. government filed charges against Donald Trump. It’s the guy’s — probably his first job out of college is working for his dad doing this. Files charges against him and Fred Trump, this is 50 years ago, for violating the law. The federal law. The Civil Rights Act that says you cannot discriminate on the basis of race for housing. You cannot say, “Oh, I’m not renting this apartment to you because you’re black or you’re Hispanic or you’re Asian.” No, it was the law then that you were breaking the law if you did that. And that is what Fred and Donald Trump did. When you would go into the rental office for any of these apartment buildings that Trump owned to fill out an application to rent an apartment, and they would see, because you’re there filling out a form, what color your skin was. And when they saw that your skin color was black, they put a little “C” at the top of the rental application form after you left. Just marked it with a little “C,” I think some had a little circle around them and made it look like the copyright insignia. But it meant to let them know not to rent to them because they were “c” — “colored.” I know, you’re thinking. Really, it wasn’t “n”?” No, no. It showed that they had some humanity on them. They just called them “colored.” And so if you were “colored” or black, you could not rent any of these 4000 apartments that Trump owned in mostly in Brooklyn and Queens. In fact, the federal government, in filing their charges against the Trump family — or can we just say from now on, the Trump Crime Family— when they filed the charges, in those charges, it said that over the years the Trump family, the Trump Organization, out of the nearly 4000 apartments that they owned, they had rented an apartment to a total of seven black families. Seven. Seven! Over many, many years. They owned nearly 4000 apartments. That’s a serious commitment to your racism. And it didn’t matter if on the application form, you know, it showed that they could afford the rent, they made enough money, you know, they were willing to put down the security deposit. They had the money for that, you know, all the usual crap you’ve got to go through when you’re running. That didn’t matter, though. It didn’t matter if they had the money, didn’t matter if they earned enough to afford the crap apartments. This is the only time I’m going to get sued by Trump. Because I called his apartment’s “crap” and “shit.” Did I say — actually I didn’t say “shit.” I’ll say it now: The shit apartments in Brooklyn and Queens that the Trump family owned. Even had their own buildings, their little set of buildings called Trump Village. That takes a lot of gall in a city that is roughly a third white, a third black, and a third let’s just say Hispanic and Asian and, you know, everything else. And it’s kind of been that way… probably, you know, if you go back and look at the statistics, you go back 50 years… It’s pretty much in the 8.5 million here, now. It’s still, you know, pretty much the same racial — kind of close to a third, third and a third with some, some disparity depending on the year of the decade. 

[00:16:04] But nonetheless, that to have that kind of a commitment to making sure that no black families and I think I might have mentioned this before last year, I mean, the statistic has bugged me for a long time because and I don’t mean to offend any New Yorkers, here, but I just I want to know why you guys? Why didn’t the city take care of him in his family before this week? Before the end of May of 2024. It took that long? When they were committing these criminal acts — and not just all that, it’s the, you know, the whole list of things from Trump University to, to, not paying contractors, not paying people, trying to hire people that were not legal immigrants so they could get away with not paying than the minimum wage on and on and on. All this shit they’ve done over the years, all these criminal acts. And it took a hush payment to a porn star to finally bring the Trump Crime Family to justice in a courtroom with a jury. With a jury where two thirds of them made over $100,000 a year. His peers. It took this long for justice to be served? How many years or decades when they had all those apartment buildings did they purposely not rent to anybody because of their skin color? Especially if it was black. Seven families in all those years. Seven black families. 

[00:17:50] And I know you’re thinking, how did those seven get through? I don’t know the answer to this, but boy, someday I hope some investigative reporter will… I’m just curious, you know, did they just put down an outrageous amount of money that said, you know, “This is what I earn every year?” Or maybe they offered a triple security deposit or first, last, second, second to last month’s rent, whatever, I don’t know. Maybe it was left to somebody, or they had a temp working one of those days. The temp didn’t quite know which letter of the alphabet to put down at the top of the form. Or maybe they just looked at the name and they looked at the person and they said, “Yeah, they look… They look black, but the last name is Van Dyke or Van Wagner, or — I need a good wasp name. Anybody? Anybody got a good wasp name for me? Fletcher. Fletcher Henderson III. You guys get my drift, right? It’s both damning and funny, but mostly damning. And I’m just curious, how did the seven black families scoot through the racist system that Fred Trump had set up and his son Donald then carried out for him? 

[00:19:21] And they were hauled into court 50 years ago. There was no way out of it. They had all the goods on them. And so they settled it, as they did for many of their crimes throughout the years. Always a settlement. We could always do $0.20 on the dollar, folks, right? It was not a criminal act, as in they could have gone to jail for being racist. We still allow that in the United States. You will not serve time for certain… Now we have what are called “hate crimes” so you could serve time for being a racist. But back then, back in the 70s, I mean, all you did was deny people a roof over their head because of the color of their skin. These Trumps have done this for decades upon decades and decades. And I’ll go back to what I was saying to New Yorkers who are listening to this. Why do you let them get away with it? Why didn’t anybody say or do anything? It was clear that they were not good people. It was clear that Donald, even in his 20s, in his 30s, was a bit of a rogue. Something wasn’t right with this guy. He was scamming it. You could just tell. Your instinct could tell. And, you know, maybe you know, this or that would happen and he’d make the front page of the tabloids here. But it became kind of a cool thing. “The Donald.” The press came up with a nickname for him. That’s not Donald’s nickname for himself. They called him “The Donald.” And here’s a big front page of him dating this babe. Or on page three, him and another babe. All because it was just so entertaining and so fascinating and so funny and cool. “New York in the 70s — cool!” To those of you like me, who are from other places around the country, I mean, if you’re from Chicago, would somebody get away with this many crimes? Okay. Maybe in Chicago, that was the wrong choice. I can speak for Flint or Detroit. I can tell you that Donald Trump never would have been president of the United States. Never would have continued for 50 years with this kind of behavior if he was in Detroit. Even if you guys don’t know Detroit, you know Detroit enough to know. We have a river, too, you know. The Trumps for their crimes for the crime family they belong to, they weren’t going to end up in the East River. I’m telling you, if you pulled that kind of shit in Detroit and if you did it for decades, can you imagine in Detroit putting a C on the top of any application? A job application, a rental app, anything to to make sure the boss knows this person is not white. This person is black. How long do you think you can get away with that in Detroit? Go ahead — anybody? Any guess? Anybody? How long in Detroit would Trump gotten away with that? How long in LA? How long in Seattle? Do I have to go around the whole country here? It was the job of the system here in New York, the law enforcement system, the judicial system. The media. The world headquarters of all this media right here in New York City. The headquarters of finance right here in New York City. I’m guessing more lawyers here than any other place in the country — maybe the world. And yet they got away with everything. That’s your legacy, New York City. Had you taken care of him back when he should have been taking care of, there would have been no Trump campaign for the presidency. There would have been no Trump in the White House. “Oh, but Mike, it was so much fun reading about The Donald in the Daily New,s in the New York Post. Oh, he was a man about town. He was always on the talk shows. Yeah, he was a little flamboyant, but… But he was the Donald.”. 

[00:24:21] See, I’ve stopped laughing about this. I do seem a little upset, don’t I? Yeah. Because we, as Americans, and this is true, whatever country you are listening to this in, we have a responsibility as citizens to make sure that the bad people don’t get away with doing their bad things, especially when it comes to hurting other human beings simply because of the color of their skin. This fucker, Trump, took out a full page ad in the daily paper here back when they arrested those kids for raping the female jogger in Central Park back in the, I believe, the early 90s. They didn’t do anything to that woman. They were all innocent. And yet they had to find somebody to be responsible. So they grabbed these five black kids — black, black and Hispanic — and they all serve prison terms. Multiple, multiple years doing prison terms for something they didn’t do. And Trump took out a full page ad in the paper here demanding the death penalty for them. He, Trump — the judge, the jury and the executioner. You can look up the ad. Just type in “Trump full page ad Central Park five.” Look it up. And how many people in this town were absolutely convinced that these five black young people went on a rampage, and then committed this horrific crime against this woman. 

[00:26:28] You know, I mean, this is supposed to be the United States. This is supposed to be a democracy with certain protections and freedoms. This isn’t like a country where because, you know, a group goes in and commits a horrific crime — rape, murder, you know, whatever — and then you don’t go catch those people who committed the crime, the actual criminals, you then decide to go after and destroy the lives of innocent people who look like, who had the same skin color of those who actually committed the crime. Right? We don’t live in that kind of country, right? You know, the kind where you then go and kill a whole bunch of people who look like the people that maybe committed this crime. We don’t do that. No. No. If somebody from Serbia breaks into your house and steals a bunch of stuff, the police don’t go out and look for just Serbians and then arrest them. Just arrest how many Serbians you can find and put them in in jail. Why? Because they’re Serbians. And we know that the people who committed this, robbery were Serbians. Right. We don’t. That’s not how we do it, right? If one group of people commits a crime, we then don’t go and punish the rest of that group of people. Okay, good. Yeah. We’re just… Sorry I’m taking so long with this, but I just want to clarify that that’s not what you do in a free society, in a democracy, in a place that has equal rights for everybody. But here. New York City, big liberal New York City, went out and grabs five black guys, puts them on trial, and either forces them to settle for a certain amount of time in prison, or we’ll take this to the jury and the jury — they’ll throw the book at you. They’ll throw you in prison for life. But not Fred Trump and not Donald Trump. 

[00:28:52] And so that’s why when I think about what happened this past week, yes, I’m mad it took this long. Yes, I’m mad at the white people, the majority of white voters in 2016 who voted for a man who was proud of how he could just grab women, grab them by their private parts. And white America said, “Yeah, I don’t have a problem with that.” And the majority of white voters voted for him. Now, the good news here, as I’ve been pointing out for a few years now, we’re probably 15 years away from this being a white minority country. In other words, the white people will not have the majority of this country. It’ll be people of color. So, that’s a long time to wait for justice there. But we’re already at the point now where 70% of eligible voters this November are either not white and/or female and/or young between the ages of 18 and 35. That’s 70% of our voting base in this country. And yet we have to actually listen to people. We have to actually listen to our own heart and our fears that he could be back in the White House — Trump. And then we have to deal with this whole other thing on how the current president, that I and 7 million more people than voted for Trump, voted to have in the White House, only to have him doing what he’s doing now. You know, like, where you go into the park and round up anybody that looks like the people we say did this crime just round them up. Or in this case, let’s fund the killing of them and let’s send armaments, to a certain country, and they’ll do the dirty work for us and start the genocide. Yeah. No, no. 

[00:31:16] So, yeah, we have a dilemma when it comes to November. Trump must not be allowed back in the White House. You know, I think just a quick side thought here before I wrap up. I think that one of the things that helped certain jurors who probably were inclined, you know, toward Trump, probably voted for Trump, and certainly did not want to be the one juror who was going to, because they got pressured into voting with the majority in the jury room and then that person, that guy has to feel responsible for preventing Trump from returning to the White House. He couldn’t live with that for the rest of his life. The law says that Trump could still run for the presidency this year if you convict him. If you go in that room and convict him, he’s still eligible to run for president and he can take his seat in the Oval Office. Even if you convict him. In fact, he actually can be certified on whatever the January 6th is of this coming January, he can be certified while he’s behind bars as the president of the United States. So don’t be basing your vote on, “Oh, I can’t be the one that’s gonna, you know, prevent all the millions of people that want to vote for him from having their vote heard.” No, no, no, no. I think that put whatever MAGA Republican, former Trump voters, current Trump voters there are and that were in that jury pool, I think that put them somewhat at ease that, “Oh so I do believe he’s guilty of these crimes. They’ve shown us the evidence. But that won’t prevent him from running and let Americans decide if they still want him.” Yeah. Basically, that’s the law. He can still run for president and be president. And I think if there were 1 or 2 potential hold outs… Possibly, possibly, I don’t know. 

[00:33:39] I’m just thinking that might have done the trick. This seemed like a really smart judge and a good judge. Pretty even tempered, and knew that he would be judged himself if he, you know, every defendant in our society, we believe deserves a fair trial, right? Deserves a fair shot. In fact, our rules say that you cannot convict him unless you are absolutely certain beyond a reasonable doubt that the state, the government, has proven that he’s committed this crime. Now we don’t have those same rules. If you’re a bunch of black kids in Central Park, you know, you’re black, you know, “Get out the handcuffs.” You’re Fred Trump, you’re Donald Trump — “Right this way, sir. We’ve been holding our table for you.” In some weird and crazy way, thank you, Stormy Daniels. Thank you, Michael Cohen. And thank you, jury, for so rightly believing that, yes, even though somebody might have been a porn star or even a worse thing, a somebody that decided to have sex with Donald Trump. No judgment. It’s a free country. You’re a consenting adult. Michael Cohen, you once said you’d take a bullet for Trump. But this jury believed you. And you sat there on the stand and you said, “Yes, you know I am a liar. I’m a convicted liar, and I’m a thief. I stole from Trump the bastard.” But the jury was told, “You’re only to pay attention to the evidence, you know. Was he telling the truth about this? That’s what matters.” And that jury… Man, oh, man. And the ones who had leanings toward Trump that they all did the right thing. And Trump doesn’t know what to do with himself now because he’s off on a tangent. He’s gone crazy. But, every once in a while, the system works, the wheels turn in the right direction. And something I never thought I’d see happen in my lifetime, that a Trump, a member of the Trump Crime Family, would be brought to justice, and something nobody ever, ever wanted to see, that a president of the United States would become a convicted felon. Quit calling him the former president of the United States. Describe them the way you would describe any other normal civilian type person who was a convicted felon. Call him that. He’s the convicted felon who right now will be the Republican candidate for president of the United States. I don’t care what order you put it in. He’s a Republican first, then a convicted felon or convicted felon and then a Republican. It doesn’t really matter. He’s not the first Republican that’s actually commits crimes that people that were never brought up for charges on those crimes. Nixon. George W Bush. It’s not okay, but here we are. One for our side. 

[00:37:49] And of course, our side is not — we’re not talking about the Democrats here. I’ve got some splaining to do. We’re just talking about our side being, you know, as human beings on this Earth who believe in right and wrong, who believe in justice, and who believe that even a fake rich person can’t just get away with anything.

[00:38:23] Before we finish, I just want to thank today’s underwriter who is supporting this podcast. And that underwriter is Shopify. Listeners of my podcast here have known all about Shopify now for some time. They are, of course, the global commerce platform used by millions of people around the world, including this very podcast. The great thing about Shopify is that they’ve made it their mission to make it easy for you and anyone else to start and run and grow your own small business. You don’t need to know how to do code or design or none of it. Basically, all you need is your idea. And Shopify’s got the tools to help you open up shop. But it doesn’t end there. They’ve also got extensive help resources to help you grow and support you along the way. There’s a reason that 10% of all online shops in the U.S. use Shopify. So if you have an idea for your own online shop, maybe even to support your nonprofit or your school or whatever, maybe you’re looking to upgrade your brick and mortar store, check out Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at And remember, rumble is always in lowercase. Go to now to grow your business no matter what stage you’re in. And thank you Shopify for supporting this podcast and for supporting my voice. 

[00:40:04] Well, that’s it, for my podcast today. Unbelievable — we’ve got Netanyahu coming here to address a joint session of Congress. Talk about bringing in another criminal. He’s got his own felony indictments that he’s facing in Israel and was supposed to been on trial this past fall, but because of the massacre on October 7th, they have to postpone everything because obviously your first job is to protect your people, protect the country. Right, Bibi? Isn’t that what you did? Protected your people and protected the country? Yes. You did. You. You. You little Bibi-you. You’re so cute. Yeah, the people of Israel, I think most of them, no matter where they stand politically, they don’t have short memories, and I’m predicting a not so dissimilar podcast to the one where we are just closing up right now here with this, day of Trump’s reckoning that Mr. Netanyahu will have his reckoning. And there are millions of people in Israel that cannot wait for that day to happen, especially the families of these hostages. October 7th never should have happened. And the judicial system which he was trying to destroy before the assault on October 7th, in Israel and the incredible investigative reporting and incredible writing and media that exists in that country. You probably don’t know that, but I get three daily newspapers, online from Israel every day in English, you can do the same. It’s. Boy oh, boy, oh, boy. You learn stuff you’re not going to learn here. It’s been very helpful. So, you know, we’ll deal with Netanyahu here whenever he arrives and, talk about it. And, I’d love to hear your feelings about it. And we forge on here. It’s a hell of a year. We’re going to get some great news and we’re going to get some awful news, starting with the Supreme Court here in the next few weeks. So, let’s just, keep our heads above water. Let’s keep fighting for the things we believe in. Do not despair. Do not give up. Not now. This is oftentimes how it is when it gets near to the place when you have success. Not to use a sports analogy, but sometimes the season before you win the Cup, the World Series, the Super Bowl ring was your worst season that last season. Any Detroit Lions fans know what I’m talking about that you know, we still haven’t been to the Super Bowl, but man. The way things can swing in this world, in our lives, even personally. You’re in the hole and suddenly you’re on top of the world. It does swing like that. That’s why I never even think of giving up. You’re not alone. You’ve got me to start with. And you’ve got millions, tens of millions of others. And when it comes to the planet Earth, you got billions who believe the way you believe and are rightfully scared shitless for what is happening and could very well happen in this place we call home. So, we have to fight on. We have to be involved. We have to not lose our sanity. We have to keep our sense of humor. And, you know, maybe someday they won’t call you The Donald. New York, I love you. I do love you, actually. It’s a great city, but man, you got this one wrong and we’re still paying for it. So one more thing. Just a little piece of comedy here from Jimmy Fallon. This week, they posted this on — what was it? Thursday? It was within 24 hours, I think, of Trump’s conviction. They took from actual speeches of Trump, the words to the new Trump anthem: I Fought the Law, But the Law Won. So I’ll leave you with that if you want to watch the video, maybe we’ll have time to put it up on the on the site here. But that’s it, my friends. Thanks to my executive producer and editor, Angela Vargos, and all the people who listen. All of you. We’ll talk real soon here. This is Michael Moore. Take care.