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To read more about Episode 283, visit the main episode page.

Michael Moore [00:00:15] This is Rumble with Michael Moore, and I am Michael Moore. Thank you, everybody, for listening today. And now, for those of you who keep writing me and saying, “I don’t listen to podcasts.” I know. I’m sorry. I’ve been in kind of a jag here of wanting to talk to people. It’s the middle of winter. It’s dark out. It’s cold. I live alone… Most of the time. Why did you say “most of the time”? You live alone! Well, because I should not put that out there publicly because then you don’t want the wrong people thinking, “Oh, there’s nobody there. Maybe… Maybe we should pay him a visit.” You know? (laughs) So I just made that up — “most of the time” I’m here by myself. All of the time I’m here by myself. So I think I’ve been doing these podcasts — and I, you know, I love to write, and I’ve got a whole bunch of Substacks that are half written or mostly written or whatever, and I should just finish them and send them out for you to read for all the people like they would rather read than listen. And I’m getting the transcripts out, I’ve been posting the transcripts of these last few podcasts so you can read them and not have to listen to me. I don’t blame you, but oh man. And now I’m going to get a lot of mail from people. Do not feel bad for me that I live alone. It’s a good thing. I’m relatively happy. (laughs) And, you know, life is good. You know, I have good friends. I have two wonderful sisters. I have a wonderful daughter. I have wonderful nieces, you know, good relatives. One of my cousin’s birthday was today. I sent her a Facebook “Happy Birthday, Cuz.” You know, I have actually a number of cousins I really think the world of and I’m very lucky to have all this. 

[00:02:25] Both my parents are gone. I’m still not used to that yet even though the last one, my dad, passed away back in 2014. So, geez Mike, what is that? Almost nine years ago. Aye yaye yaye. If you’ve lost your parents — you know what I’m talking about? — you just get this sense sometimes. You just want to pick up the phone. I have, at times, I’ve actually picked up the phone to dial them just to tell them something that’s going on and I’m like, “What are you doing?” You know? They’re not here. But, you know, that’s the way it is. Well, I’m not going anywhere — not that I know of. Now that I’ve told the world that I live alone here and there’s no locks on my doors — no, that’s not true. I’m kidding! I’ve triple-bolted locks. If you saw some of the mail I get, you’d go, “Only three locks, Mike?” But you know, I don’t know. 

[00:03:28] Don’t you feel yourself in a bit of a funk sometimes in this part of the year where, you know, not a whole lot is going on, and then the stuff that is going on is just kind of sad and pathetic. And don’t you wish you could just call up the president and just say, “Hey, P.J.” — that’s what I call him. I’m “M&M” to him. I think he actually thinks that is my name. That when he hears Eminem, they’re probably talking about me, but I don’t want to ever correct him. So. But yeah, to him I’m M&M and to me he’s P.J. —President Joe. And so I just want to call him up sometime, like on a dark night like this (laughs) and just go, “Dude, let’s get our story straight here. Okay nobody is going to talk about you having dementia or being slow or old. After that State of the Union speech and the way that you pivoted and took along those nabobs on the other side of the aisle, and you got them to stand and support your call for protecting Medicare and Social Security. That was awesome. And you have to be sharp as a tack to be able to pull off what you did. So you, in one fell swoop, you just ended that. Yes, you’re old. I mean, yes, you sometimes trip on the stairs going up the plane or, you know, this or that happens. But you also have talked honestly and very compassionately about the disability that you’ve had since you were a child of being what was called a stutterer. But I know there’s a better name for that now. But, you know, and so, yeah, so sometimes you have a hard time spitting the words out. Big deal. Who doesn’t? Angie here is she she edits these, these podcast. So if I just started stumbling around like I am right now, she might take that out just to make me sound a little better.” Even though we do have a policy of it’s actually better that you hear all the noise, the fire trucks, the stuff, so you know that this is real, this is not planned, it’s not scripted. “Yes, Mike, we could tell it’s not scripted.” Okay, fine. Alright that part… But you know what I’m saying. 

[00:05:39] “But you know, President Biden, please, okay? A lot of these Republicans, man, I don’t know why they’re hating on Ukraine and they’re hating on you for trying to help them. And then we’ve got some people on the Left that are like they almost want to stand up for and they’re defensive about Russia and Putin and all that. And it’s like, I don’t get it because the fact that the Ukrainian people have stopped the — pretty much — the invasion and that they’ve repelled a lot of the Russians that invaded their country and all that is so impressive and so powerful. And I think it gives a lot of people hope. But this constant sending them billions and billions of dollars more of weapons. Look, I understand sending them stuff, obviously, to protect themselves. And, you know, and I can tell you know, we’re not ever sending any soldiers there. Because our MO for the last God knows how many decades of us invading countries, going to places where we don’t belong, losing massive amounts of people that didn’t need to die — so we’re not going, we’re not sending the troops to Ukraine. Americans show up, not a good idea. I know you get that. But the thing of just this constant billions and billions and billions of dollars of weapons, which again, yes, they should be able to defend themselves. If we can help, we should do that. It’s the only way we got through our revolution back in the 1700s is because the French helped us. Lafayette, you know? They sent ships, armaments, but they didn’t send troops to fight our war. I mean, there were French troops on these ships, but still. They knew that we had to defeat the British. This wasn’t going to be another war of France against England, and we’re just kind of the either the victims of it or the bystanders. So that should have set the model for how we behaved. And we were that way for some period of time until we weren’t.” Look, this is all I would say, “You can’t just be shipping weapons and things without an insistence to the Russians that they’ve got to sit down at the table. There’s got to be a peace table. We have to sit down at the table with them and stop this. They’ve got to pull their troops out. They’ve got to stop the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Got to stop all of this. You know, we can sort it out later what they’re going to have to pay for. Obviously, they shouldn’t be able to get away with this. But where’s the peace talks?” And now President Zelensky, he’s like, “No, we’re not talking peace.” And I get that. They invaded you. They have killed many of your civilians. I probably wouldn’t want to talk to them either. But this can’t go on forever. We can’t fund a proxy war. And we have to be so careful. You don’t want two nuclear powers getting toe to toe and then some accident happens, something goes wrong, you know, somebody launches the wrong balloon and then boom. And then everybody thinking, “Why weren’t we also having peace talks at the same time of helping Ukraine with this war?” Doesn’t make sense, does it? “And look, you know, you can call up Putin. Trump did. You can call him up and just say, “Come on, dude. You and I, we’ve known each other for a long time. I talked to you long before I was president. Okay. I know this doesn’t look good. You’re getting your ass kicked. We got to end this. But, you know, ending it — let me help you. Let me help you. You could save a little face, maybe. 

[00:09:36] (Coughing) I’m gonna need some water here. Okay. Now that I let the secret out the bag that Angie doesn’t cut out any of this stuff so you know that it’s really happening, now all this eating water, coughing mistakes I make, it will all be in this episode. 

[00:10:00] But seriously, though, Putin. Come on, Putin. What the hell? Have I ever told you guys that I met Putin? I met Putin back in, it was like 1989, something like that. He was stationed in East Germany back when it was divided. Germany was divided and this was the communist part of Germany, East Germany. And so he was a KGB person like the operative there in charge in I think it was in Leipzig, which is one of the large cities in East Germany. And what had happened was — I should get Rod on. Rod’s an old friend of mine and helps produce my movies with me. Our first film, Roger & Me, got invited to play in the Leipzig Film Festival. And so, you know, of course, yeah we’re going to go. I mean, we’d never been anywhere out of the country with our film other than Canada, which we still consider out of the country just to be clear. I got a little bit of mail from Canadians about my podcast last week talking about how the Canadians don’t really have a real aggressive military force, but they do have a defense system. But I was laughing about how I had gone there to see if I could rent a couple of their fighter jets or fighter helicopters for a movie I was making in Canada. And they just kind of laughed at me like, “We don’t have what you’re looking for. You’ll have to get that from the Americans.” And so now I get all these Canadians writing me, “Oh, we have F-35 fighter jets — we bought them from you guys. And we have this, we have that.” And I’m like, “Don’t tell me this stuff. You guys are the are the peacemakers. When George W Bush tried to get you to invade Iraq with us, you wouldn’t go. You said No, no. You know, we all just loved you for that. You stood up to the American president. You know, and I know Canadians. I know you kind of like Americans. You know that we’re a simple but good people. You know, we try to do our best. And believe me, I don’t think that you can’t or won’t fight just because I’m making fun of your so-called non militaristic defense system. But see, I’m just laughing and now I’m just offending Canadians and I don’t mean to. You are a very violent people, okay? We used to drive over from Flint to Toronto to the old Maple Leaf Gardens when I was a teenager and go to a hockey games. Usually like if the Red Wings were playing Toronto, the Maple Leafs. And oh man… Canadians on ice — watch out. With a hockey stick in their hands — watch out. Not a pretty sight. So I have seen Canadians be aggressive, be violent. So don’t get me wrong, don’t think I’m just trying to tell Americans that you guys are a bunch of, you know, whatever. But you did let in 100,000 young Americans during the Vietnam War — men, boys — who didn’t want to go and kill Vietnamese and refused to be drafted. And you gave sanctuary to people that were my age that I went to high school with. And again, those of us who lived in that era, we’ll never forget that. We’ll never forget that you did that. Still think of how wonderful it was. Still remember watching the Canadian nighttime news, which I think was on like around 9:00 at night, and I think it was called the National? Angry Canadians can write to me and correct me if I got this wrong, but we got to watch the truth about what’s going on in Vietnam. If we watched American news, we were getting a laundered version of this until finally, you know, the Americans decided that they’d start reporting the truth. And once they did, oh, well, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago with the South Vietnamese general police chief executing a Vietcong officer in the middle of the street. So the Americans then started to do excellent coverage of Vietnam, but not at first. But the Canadians? You were right there at the beginning telling us ‘this is wrong. This is not what happened. We’re not being told the truth.’ And of course, you wouldn’t say it like that. Like you would never use words like ‘liar,’ stuff like that. You know, you have a different way about you, which I love actually, and respect, but I was gratefult. We didn’t have digital back then, we didn’t have cable, so on an antenna, on an antenna outside of Flint, Michigan, we could watch the news from Windsor, Ontario each night, and we got to see the side that we weren’t being told. So thank you for that. And don’t get involved in any wars we start. Just you can have your F-35s and just shine them up and, you know, fly ’em, fly them up in the air like we do it at the Super Bowl. You guys could do it at a curling event or some other thing that, you know, hunting moose and elk.” Big hunters in Canada, big hunters. Tons of guns in Canada. Hunting is the number one sport — more people hunt than play hockey. Actual hockey players, right? More people hunt in Canada. All those guns. How many of each other do you kill each year, by the way? Just curious. What is it now? I know when we made Bowling for Columbine it was something like 100 people a year, 100 gun murders a year. That was considered a bad year back then. 

[00:15:27] Oh, yeah, back to meeting Putin. So. So Putin was like the KGB operative or whatever there in Leipzig. Oh, I know, I stopped because I thought I should just have Rod on as a guest and talk about how we got there. A couple nights after we got there they started, you know, the citizens started banging on the wall with hammers. And this is before the wall came down. This is a good couple of months before the wall came down, three months. But we were there. We were there on those first couple of nights and went down to the wall. We start banging away, Rod and I. He actually — Rod is like, you know, he must have been a gymnast in another lifetime because he leapt up to the top of the Berlin Wall and started dancing on it with the other people. Somebody gave him a sledgehammer, he starts banging on this wall. On the other side are East German soldiers with guns. On our side, there’s West German soldiers with guns. All of them screaming at us to get off the wall, stop banging on the wall. Nobody was listening to them. (laughs) They didn’t shoot anybody. 

[00:16:29] But anyways, we had to go to this reception. We were showing my film, Roger & Me. We showed it to the large crowd in this very kind of… this large theater, but very cold, very — the architecture was clearly Russian. And so the audience had a Q&A with me afterwards. And this is right, you know, the whole thing is collapsing. Gorbachev refused to send in the Russian troops to Hungary or Czechoslovakia, or East Germany. He was happy to see the end of the Cold War, and he was really in large part responsible for it ending and not using violence or troops or whatever to try to keep the old way going. So it was very impressive. I always wished I’d had a chance to meet him. He died last year. But anyway, so… So they had this reception, the East German, kind of the brass of their film industry, so to speak, and for the filmmakers and so it was us. And there was this Q&A. And I remember, you know, people asking me from the audience, you know, “What do you think about what’s going on here? It looks like the end of communism.” And I said, “Well, yes, I think look, I’ll paraphrase the current Pope” — the Pope at that time was grew up in Poland and he said something to the effect, I’m going to put it in my words so it’ll sound better (laughs) — “he was asked, ‘What do you think of the end of communism?’ And he said, ‘Well, one evil empire down, one to go.'” And he was talking about capitalism and the evil that capitalism does to keep the poor poor and the rich getting away with murder constantly. And so I said to the audience, I said, “you know, look, I guess my hope would be that you and the people of Eastern Europe might take this time as this transition happens, to maybe find a third way. Communism hasn’t worked. Capitalism, I can assure you, well, as you just saw in this film about Flint, Michigan, and General Motors, that hasn’t worked. But maybe you, your Germans, first of all, you’re like, aren’t you kind of naturally smart, you know?” (laughs) I don’t know. Well, not so smart as we know from history, but… “But come up with a new way. The parts of socialism that you’re going to miss, you’re going to miss them. You know, when you have to pull a wallet out to see a doctor, you’re going to go, ‘What the f— what’s this?’ The part where you get to go to the university for free, [With capitalism ], you know, you’re going to be in debt til your’e 40 years old at least. Don’t just make the ‘oh, communism gone. Yay! Let’s all be capitalists.’ Oh, my God, No. Take the good parts of socialism, and keep those going — the safety net that all human societies need. And yes —” you know, I though I will say something good about capitalism here — “you know, look, the capitalism we have now is not really what maybe Adam Smith had intended. There is no free market. There is no competitive marketplace. American corporations are trying to buy each other out as fast as they can, merge, eliminate the competition. Because you don’t want any competition, you want all the money for yourself. You don’t want a dozen airlines, you want two airlines. More money for you — that’s the American way. So no, we don’t really believe in capitalism, so don’t buy any of this stuff you’re being told. The capitalist system that exists now is a system of greed. Create a system where everybody has a seat at the table.” So I said to the audience, “Everybody gets a seat at the table and everybody gets a slice of the pie. And yeah, maybe the slices will be different sizes or whatever, but nobody goes to bed hungry. Nobody’s sleeping on the street. Everybody who wants a job, gets a job. You know, you’re not working into your 60s and 70s. There’s retirement and there’s —” back then this is 1989 I’m over there, right? “— pensions.” Young people listening to this are like, “what’s a pension?” So that was my advice to them. Not that they took it, but it’s actually how I feel. I just feel like you don’t want to do anything to stifle the creativity and the inventiveness of an individual as long as they’re not harming the rest of society or their neighbor or even themselves, but at the same time, you want a social safety net that protects your fellow citizens from harm, all kinds of harm and lets people enjoy a good life and have a good life. Strive for that. 

[00:21:38] So then we went to the reception afterwards and they were introducing us all — they don’t ever introduce and say “so here’s the KGB chief for Leipzig, Vladimir Putin.” (laughs) But somebody whispered this to us, “this is the KGB guy here.” And we’re like, “Oh, that’s kind of cool.” You know, we go into James Bond mode in our heads because, you know, we’re Americans. We like to channel ourselves to a British spy. (laughs) Please don’t make me explain this. So… But I should have Rod on, because we’re going to see what we can remember of that conversation we had with Putin and his buddies there in 1989 Leipzig, East Germany. It’s a crazy life. 

[00:22:25] Well, I think before we continue with any more of this tomfoolery nonsense, I should thank our wonderful underwriter who is supporting this podcast, and especially this episode of Rumble. It’s brought to you by BetterHelp. As we’ve talked about many times on this podcast, sometimes life can feel overwhelming — whether you’re suffering through a tragedy or struggling with the day to day grind, maybe just trying to keep your head above water, you know, maybe because it’s a dark and lonely February night. It can be anything, and talking to a therapist can help you navigate through it, and it can provide you with the coping skills you need to make it to the other side. If you’re thinking of giving therapy a try — and I’m a big believer in it — BetterHelp is a great option. It’s convenient, it’s flexible, affordable, and it’s entirely online. All you do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it’s not a great fit, if it’s the wrong therapist for you, no problem. You can switch therapists any time, no additional charge. So if you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can help you get there. Visit And if you do that today, you’ll get a 10% discount off your first month. That’s Thank you, BetterHelp, for supporting this podcast, supporting my voice and trying to help people out there in need of help right now. It’s much appreciated. Thank you. 

[00:24:06] Oh, you know, I also wanted to just acknowledge that this weekend was Yoko Ono’s 90th birthday. She’s 90 years old. She’s an incredible person. I’ve met her and had dinner with her a few times. She’s had me over to her place. And, you know, it’s a longer story I’ll go back and tell you someday about a conversation I had with John Lennon there, maybe a few months, a year before he was murdered. But she’s been a good soul, a good friend. She’s lived her life for peace. She was an incredible artist back in the 60s — very early feminist art, modern art, avant garde art. And actually, The New Yorker did a wonderful article on her and her art last year. And I’m going to dig that up and I’ll post that on the site here if you want to read this article. 

[00:25:03] 90 years old yesterday, Saturday. I’m recording this on Sunday night. She’s good people. And I’m grateful to Peter Jackson for showing the truth of the Beatles last — near their last sessions there with the movie that came out last year, the Get Back sessions. The director, Peter Jackson took all this old footage, and everything we’ve been told about the Beatles, their break up — all a lie. They didn’t blame Yoko. In fact, there’s a scene in there where Paul is saying to Ringo and George, you know, “let’s get behind John here. He’s in love. We should support any of us who are in love. You know, And it’s nice that he brings her here.” In fact, he asked Yoko to come and sit in on those sessions, not the other way around. But the way it was portrayed was, “Oh, she broke up the Beatles.” This is like this misogyny — I just, I’m telling you, man, I grew up with this. It’s still with us. But let me tell you, if you were born in the 50s or 60s and you had to grow up with this, you might have had a smart mom who would these days probably have a pretty good job — not back then. Not allowed. My mom was valedictorian of her high school class, and the best job she ever got was a clerk. (sudden faint sound of voices from Michael’s television in the other room) Just to prove again that we don’t really… we give you the real dope as to what’s happening — I don’t know if you can hear this. I’m in the back part of the apartment here and out in the living room, I had put the NBA All-Star Game on pause and now I can hear it’s come off pause. But I paused it because not so much of the game, it just sounded like Shaq and Charles Barkley, who are doing the commentating and Kenny Smith were fighting with each other practically on the anchor desk there, as they’re calling the game. It’s was just… (laughs) it’s funny, and then it’s like, wow. No, I didn’t tape it or anything, so it’s just — I hope it doesn’t bother you if you can hear it in the background. There’s nobody that’s gotten through the three deadbolt locks there. I’m good. I’m safe here. If you hear people talking, it’s just the NBA. Okay. 

[00:27:21] But anyway, so… I just wanted to share that about Yoko. Maybe I should ask her to come on the podcast one of these days. She’s such a good person. And oh I was thanking Peter Jackson for showing us — you know, Paul had Linda in there in those sessions? You know, they could bring in their spouses, their partners, who they were dating. Whatever it was, they were friends. They were long-time, lifetime friends because they started their friendship — what, George was 15, Paul was 16, John was 17. I mean, you know, they just sneak away and get on the ferry for the weekend and go over to Hamburg, Germany, and play in clubs till four in the morning. But the other thing that Jackson showed in that documentary that I thought was wonderful was how just the four of them got along with each other. And yes, they had their differences. And yes, they you know, they’re artists, they had fights about their art. So what? You know, at the end of it, though, they were all still very much supportive of each other. Deep, deep friendship. Deep love. It’s not the story we were told all these years was it? That makes you wonder, really. Well, I’m sure you already wonder this, how much we are told by — whether it’s the media, gossip mongers, whatever. You know, if I don’t see it with my own eyes, if I don’t hear it, it’s not that I have to be present at this crime or that crime or whatever. But I’m just saying I think a lot of shit gets said about a lot of people and a lot of it isn’t true. And I have learned that and seen that, especially in this business, especially with what I do in film and TV and whatever. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wanted to just turn this microphone on and say, “Wow, I heard something I saw on the news or on this entertainment show or whatever. And I got to tell you, that’s not true. I mean, in my opinion, it’s not true. Maybe I’m wrong, but…” And then something really important happens in the world and I think, “okay, we have to deal with this issue,” but, you know. 

[00:29:50] Turns out those other three things they shot down were also balloons or kind of like balloons — research balloons, private industry balloons, maybe our own military balloons? And Biden had to just kind of fess up and admit it that this is not — the other three, not the first white one, but the other three — they spent $2.2 million shooting those other balloons down. One over Lake Huron and the two up in the Arctic Circle. I mean really. It’s good, though, that you, we, that we don’t fall for the manipulation of trying to get us hyped up. You know — got to have a new enemy. Now it’s the Chinese. The Chinese are supposed to be the enemy. People aren’t going to fall for it. And so now that whole issue is gone. I want to come back to it at some point, partly because it’s so damn funny and partly because we need to always be on guard when we’re being told shit. 

[00:30:59] So I can hear Charles Barkley screaming about something now. I love Charles Barkley, by the way. He and I were on a talk show together and we went out to dinner afterwards — this is maybe a decade or so ago. What a funny guy. Great guy. Great conversation with him. I love watching him on TV. He has a good heart. And so does Shaq too. I mean, I like them all. They’re all… I love watching Inside the NBA on Thursday nights. It’s doesn’t come on until 12:30 Eastern so sometimes I do tape it, but I like it. 

[00:31:43] Well, I think that’s all I’ve got for you here today. I just needed to talk to you. It’s dark. It’s cold. It’s windy. There’s nobody here. And it’s a nice feeling to know, I mean, like I told you a couple of weeks ago, we’re approaching 40 million downloads of this podcast. There are nearly 700,000 of you who get this Substack email from me — whether it’s my column or whether it’s this podcast. That’s a lot of people — and a lot of you share it, and I’m so grateful. So blessed. Can’t thank you enough. And even though I can’t see right now, I have a good sense and a lot of you, you send me emails and texts and I even have a voicemail thing that you can click on here on my site and leave me a one minute voicemail. And of course, I cannot answer everybody because then that’s all I would ever do. But boy, I listen to them and I read them and I thank you for that. I have a good sense of you and what’s going on out there, and so on a dark and cold night like this, I don’t feel that this is for nothing. I feel like we’re all part of a greater thing here, all of us trying to do what we can to move this forward, deal with what we have to deal with. And it’s a real privilege that I get to have your attention here for a half hour or so. So I’m deeply grateful. 

[00:33:25] I hope you’re doing okay. If you’re not, talk to somebody. Don’t let it fester. It’s always a rough time of year. Take care of yourselves. There are people who love you. The best person is yourself. Start by loving yourself. There’s a lot of good going on there, and sometimes through the years it gets buried, it gets covered up, it gets forgotten — but it’s there, you know? And we all just have to be there for each other, help pull each other through. And even though I won’t be there at your house or where you work or where you go to school, I do want you to know that every day I think about who you are. Those of you out there who are concerned about the same things, those of you are concerned about things that maybe I should be more concerned about — all of that, man, it means a lot to me. I love you for it. I love being in the fight with you, a fight that we have in front of us for our democracy, the one that we’re winning, the one that we’re going to continue to win. I’m not giving up. You’re not giving up. And there’s only what, about another four weeks until spring? So come on — come on! We can make it. 

[00:34:49] I’m going to close tonight here with Patti Smith. The great singer songwriter has a Substack also. And on her Substack yesterday, on Yoko’s 90th birthday, she put a clip of her and other people in her band singing on — this was in 2010 — they were on the stage at Madison Square Garden, and it was the 30th anniversary of John Lennon’s death, and it was a tribute to John Lennon. But she came out wanting to give a tribute to Yoko by singing a song that John wrote for Yoko. And it’s so sweet to watch it. If you want to just watch it on YouTube, you can do that, or I’ll just play it right now. It’s called “Oh Yoko!” Let’s send all of our good vibes and good karma to Yoko Ono and thank her for everything that she stood for in her lifetime to make this planet a better place. 

[00:35:41] Okay, my friends, that’s it. Be well and be good to yourself and to others. Be kind. And I will talk to you soon. But the next thing you’ll get for me will be a Substack that’s a written essay that I’d love for you to read here in the next few days. That said, I’m Michael Moore. Thanks to my producer and my editor, Angela Vargos, and thanks to you for participating in this with me. It means a lot. Take care. 

[ MUSIC: “Oh Yoko!” — performed by Patti Smith & Tony Shanahan at the 30th Annual John Lennon Tribute ]