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To read more about Episode 261, visit the main episode page.

[ MUSIC: Rumble Theme ]

Michael Moore [00:00:15] This is Rumble with Michael Moore, and I’m Michael Moore. Welcome, everyone. We got some good news last night. A jury in Washington, D.C. convicted the founder and the leader of the Oath Keepers for his role in the January 6th attempt to overthrow our government and to overturn the legitimate election of Joe Biden as president of the United States. His name is Elmer Stuart Rhodes. He and four others were convicted of a variety of offenses. But the most serious one that he and the person who was the head of the Florida chapter of the Oath Keepers, his name was Kelly Meggs, were both convicted yesterday, last night of seditious conspiracy, which is a very, very serious crime. There have been people charged with it only a couple of times in the last few decades. It’s hard to get a conviction on because you really have to prove that this group of people have conspired to essentially overthrow the government. The other three were convicted of lesser charges, but not sedition. Their names were Thomas Caldwell, Jessica Watkins and Kenny Harrelson. They were convicted of aiding and abetting, trying to obstruct Congress from having its session. It was not a guarantee that they were going to get these convictions. They were a little worried that they might have overreached. But apparently the jury did not see it that way, and at least a couple of them are going to more than likely be sentenced for 10 or 20 years in prison for what happened on January 6 of 2021. 

[00:01:57] And so… Good. This is what the Justice Department should be doing. This is how they should be protecting us. The primary terrorists against this country are not outsiders. They are not foreigners. They are Americans. They are the people down the street. And many of them are armed, and they are hell bent on trying to create some sort of civil war, or to use violence in any way that they feel fit to overturn things. Rhodes himself, in the days and weeks leading up to January 6, gave various interviews, wrote on his own site about his hope to “meet force with force,” to quote him. He wanted to hang Nancy Pelosi from a lamp post, putting the word out to people all over the country to come to D.C., be ready for when President Trump calls upon us. And so they brought in a lot of weapons. A lot of them brought the weapons to the uprising on the 6th of January. That’s why they didn’t go through the metal detectors for Trump’s rally — they didn’t want to have to turn their guns over. A lot of them left the guns in the hotel rooms where they were staying. The thinking was, if this gets bigger than we think it is, we’ve got the guns here to do what we need to do. And it seems like from Rhodes’s testimony, he was trying to make clear that, “You see, we left the guns in the hotel room so you can see what we weren’t really going to do anything violent.” But it felt more like a lament that they left the guns in the hotel room because looking back on it now, and I think the lesson to the next time somebody tries to overthrow the government, in their minds, they won’t be so stupid as to leave the guns in their hotel or their motel room. They will use them and there will be bloodshed. I hate to have to even say that aloud, but I don’t think by sticking our heads in the sand, this problem is going to go away. 

[00:03:50] So the Justice Department, the FBI, the people that are supposed to be protecting us, the people that in the past participated in a lot of propaganda to have us afraid of foreigners. “The foreigners are going to attack us. The foreigners are going to invade, you know, the terrorists!” And now I think we finally all agree — and even the FBI had admitted it in front of Congress — that the main terrorists we have to worry about are angry white men who are American citizens. He didn’t quite put it that way, but that’s exactly what they mostly all are. So off to jail, they will go. But I want to say just a couple of things here about this. But we’re going to take a just a quick break here to thank our underwriters for today. 

Michael Moore [00:04:37] So our first underwriter for today’s podcast is the movie Wildcat. It’s a new feature documentary film from Amazon Studios. The Hollywood Reporter called Wildcat “a riveting journey into the wild.” It follows the emotional and inspiring story of a young British Army veteran, Harry Turner, who’s struggling with PTSD and chronic depression and decides to embark on a journey into the Amazon. Once there, he meets Samantha Zwicker, a young female scientist and conservationist who’s running a wildlife rescue and rehabilitation center. And at this point, his life finds new meaning as he is entrusted with the life of an orphaned baby ocelot. In case you don’t know what an ocelot is, it’s a medium-sized, spotted wildcat about twice the size of a house cat. Harry agrees to become the adoptive “mother” of the ocelot and spends 18 months in a remote compound deep in the jungle devoting himself entirely to the cat. What was meant to be an attempt to escape life turns out for Harry to be an unexpected journey of love, discovery and healing. The film has received two International Documentary Association Award nominations and is up for all categories in this year’s Oscar competition, including Best Documentary Feature and Original Song, which is, “A Sky Like I’ve Never Seen,” written by Robin Pecknold and performed by Fleet Foxes featuring Tim Bernardes. So my friends go and see Wildcat in select theaters beginning December 21st. It will also be available to stream on Prime Video on December 30th. And thank you, Amazon Studios, not just for this incredible film, but for supporting my podcast, and my voice. 

[00:06:21] Our other underwriter for this podcast is They are a longtime supporter of Rumble with Michael Moore. And now that we’ve entered the prime holiday season, for many Americans, that also means prime shopping season. And is your one-stop-shop for all your shipping and mailing needs, giving you access to the Postal Service and U.P.S. services right from your own computer. With, you can skip the lines, skip the traffic, skip the hassle, and print your postage, schedule your own package pick-ups, and compare carriers and rates — all from the comfort of your couch. So get ahead of the holiday chaos this year and get started with today. Sign up with a promo code MOORE, that’s my last name, for a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a free digital scale — with no long term commitments and no contracts. Just go to, click the microphone at the top of the page and enter the code MOORE. And also to you,, thank you for supporting this podcast, supporting my voice and the work that we’re attempting to do. 

Michael Moore [00:07:32] Okay. Now, I’m certain most of you by now, I mean we only spent a few minutes talking about this, but basically the first thought that comes to any of our minds is, “So… Stuart Rhodes was responsible for this? Stuart Rhodes came up with this idea to have this insurrection? Stewart Rhodes stood on the mall in front of the Washington Monument telling everybody to head to the Capitol building and take back the government?” No. I’m not saying he didn’t play his role in it as a lieutenant, as someone who was working with Michael Flynn, Roger Stone, etc.. But as we all know, and when we hear this about “Well, they finally put these guys on trial, they got their convictions.” But wait a minute. What about the big cheese? What about the guy who really called for the insurrection? Weeks and weeks after his defeat at the polls. That’s all he would write or talk about — how the election was stolen, how we had to fight to get it back no matter what. And then his speech that day and how “it’s on to the Capitol building! I’m walking with you.” No. Still not arrested. Still not indicted. Still not on trial. And still thinking that he’ll never see a single day behind bars. The Benedict Arnold here, the real traitor — you know these guys, Rhodes and Meggs and the other three people in the clown car, they’re not the Benedict Arnold. They’re like the other Arnolds. You know, Larry and Moe and Curly Arnold. The Benedict Arnold in this case is Donald Trump. And his top advisers. His close people. General Michael Flynn, a convicted felon pardoned by Trump. Roger Stone, longtime adviser for many, many Republicans over the years and of Trump, convicted and then pardoned by Trump. This is the gang. This is the real gang. So where’s the arrests? Where’s the trials for what happened on January 6 for the leaders of this revolt? Not yet. 

[00:10:29] And if they think they’re throwing us a bone, “Oh, look, we’re going to put away the head of the Oath Keepers — oh and next up, in a couple of months, we’re going to put the Proud Boys on trial.” “Yeah, listen, I got a lot of work to do. I’m sure a lot of you do, too. We don’t have time for this bullshit.” I’m not saying, you know, don’t put people on trial, committed these crimes. But the people behind the crimes, the real people, not the henchmen that worked for Al Capone — Al Capone himself. What’s going on here? And to say that these other three, Watkins and Harrelson and Caldwell that were convicted of the lesser charges, the “lesser charges” of obstructing Congress from doing its business. The “lesser charges” of aiding and abetting, obstructing an official proceeding. Aiding and abetting — well, just a few hours after this, when the uprising was put down and they returned to Congress practically in the middle of the night to finally certify the election, there were 147 Republicans in the Senate in the House that stood there and voted to obstruct the election. They literally put their name down in a roll call saying that they would not certify the legitimate election of Joseph Biden as president of the United States. There is a record of this right there in Congress. 147 Republicans committed an act of treason. Now, I’m not a lawyer. I don’t know if it’s legal treason, but what do you call it? Aiding and abetting is what I call it — aiding and abetting Trump in trying to stop Biden from being officially named the president of the United States. That was their goal that day. It was the goal of the violent mob that was encouraged and cheered on and led by Trump. They all probably thought he was actually walking along with them. That was what was going on. There was an act to overthrow the government. There was an act here, a violent act to overturn the election, to stop Congress from voting. And that’s exactly what they did. They came charging in there. Congress had to run. They had a noose they wanted to hang Mike Pence with because he wouldn’t stop it. And the 435, actually 535 members of the Senate and the House had to run for their lives. Go into hiding. Leave Capitol Hill. Or some couldn’t get out of the chambers and had to hide up in the balcony on the floor, thinking this was the end of their life — making their final calls to their loved ones at home. Aiding and abetting. Disrupting a session of Congress. Obstructing an official proceeding of the federal government. A jury just convicted five people of that. Why do the 147 Republicans who 5 hours later tried to do the same thing — tried to do it through the legal means because they get a vote because they’re elected by the people of the United States. They voted to stop Biden from being the president. 

[00:14:15] And what if they had succeeded? What would you call that? They’re trying to overthrow the government of the United States. They were trying to overturn an election and stop the duly elected president of the United States from stepping foot into the Oval Office. And we just saw yesterday five people, five people convicted, two of them of seditious conspiracy — conspiracy to commit sedition — when the real sedition was organized, promoted and led by the commander in chief, by the president of the United States, and his top minions. Not Stewart Rhodes. Stewart Rhodes — yeah, of course he did what he did. And Meggs and the others, they all did that. There’s so much audio and visual footage of them doing what they did in the weeks leading up to January 6, on January 6, in the Willard Hotel, in the meetings on the days leading up to it. If this ends here with this conviction, then there’s been no justice. 

[00:15:43] And I just read where of those 147 Republicans, 119 of them are back in this new session coming up in Congress. 119 election deniers, 119 who voted on the night of January 6 to give the insurgents what they wanted in the overthrow of our 2020 election. And they’re still there. And there’s not really going to be real justice until they have been dealt with for what they did to our country. We need aggressive prosecution. We need to toss them out in the next election. A few of them didn’t make it, but the vast majority of them did. They were hoping for the red wave. They were hoping to ride that wave so they could continue all the other actions of white privilege, white supremacy, all the other racism and bigotry and hatred and misogyny — the things that they so strongly believe in. They were hoping that Congress was going to be packed wall-to-wall with Republicans at the election three weeks ago. And that didn’t happen, thanks to you. You and millions of others. Because we weren’t going to have any of that. These are people who tried to violently overthrow the country, or supported the violence, or turned their heads the other way. During a time of white supremacy rearing its ugly head — and not just in Congress right down to your local school board meeting, packed with parents wanting to make sure their children are not taught about slavery, about the genocide of our Native Americans — no, no, no, no. We can’t allow that. From school board meetings to Capitol Hill, white people are in their own uprising. And not a week goes by where we don’t have to deal with it on some level. Whether it’s because of violence that takes place or whether it’s Donald Trump inviting a white nationalist Holocaust-denier to dinner at Mar-a-Lago. “Oh, I didn’t invite him. I did not know. No, I had no idea who he was.” Mm hmm. Okay. I get it. I get that dumb people think we’re as dumb as they are. So he thinks we’ll just fall for that. 

[00:18:46] We’re in charge here, folks. We’re the majority, and we have to stop this. We can’t let this continue. What happened last night with that jury in D.C. — that’s a good thing. That’s taking a stand. “No, you cannot commit this kind of crime in this country.” But we also cannot let the leaders who plot and plan, encourage and lead violent, violent uprisings and revolts — they’re only going to continue at my friends and they’re going to continue it in a much more aggressive way if we don’t stop them. They need to see what’s going to happen if they decide to participate in this sort of endeavor. And if the main leader of this, Donald J. Trump, is allowed to go scot-free without having to pay for his treason, for his racism — well, I guess it won’t be anything new for him, right? Because he’s gotten away with everything else before. He’s gotten away with it since Daddy, since he was just a young, young, young man helping Daddy run his apartment complexes in New York City. And whenever a family would come in to want to rent an apartment in Brooklyn or Queens, if they were black, a little “c” went on the application form. I think a littlel “c” with a circle — like a copyright sign. But it didn’t mean “copyright,” it meant “colored.” And out of the thousands of families that they rented apartments to, the federal government said they could only find something like seven black families that were in these big Trump apartment buildings. And they had to settle with the federal government. They were sued in a civil trial, not a criminal trial, of course, not criminal. It can’t be criminal to deny a black family an apartment. But they had to settle. They had to essentially admit that their racism ran their operation — and basically got off scot-free. It’s been that way his whole life. 

[00:21:25] Don’t you think it’s time we put a stop to it that he would have the audacity, after being soundly defeated, he and the candidates he endorsed in this election three weeks ago, that just a few days after that, he announces he’s running for president again. Who are we? Somebody who tried to overthrow the United States government, somebody who tried to overturn a legitimate election, somebody who tried to stop the individual that we, the people voted for by over 7 million votes over the number of votes he got. Complete and utter rejection in 2020 and then how they were supposed to completely take over here on November 8th of this year. And they got defeated in the Senate. They got defeated across the country, numerous governorships, the most women now as governors in this country than we’ve had ever. But looks like they may have the House by four votes. Four votes out of 435. With a majority leader that isn’t sure he’s got enough votes to become majority leader, and it may actually go to a floor fight — which hasn’t happened in a hundred years. Not since 1923 has there been a fight within a party as to who the majority leader, who the Speaker of the House is going to be. Wow. That’s how much they’re in control. It’s going to be one shit show after another for them. 

[00:23:10] And you know what I was telling you last week? Remember that in this case, in the 2020 election, in the two years of this Congressional session, there were 16 members of Congress elected that never made it to the end of the term. Two years later. You know, they quit or they died or they were indicted or they got caught in the scandal or for any of a number of reasons. We need to be ready for that because it’s going to — actually had already started, sadly, yesterday. A Democratic member of Congress passed away, Donald McEachin. He was part of the Congressional Black Caucus, and he didn’t make it. So they’re already going to have to have a special election at some point to replace him. We have to make sure we keep that seat. But this is what happens in any Congress. That’s why it’s never really over, and we should be ready to run the right people in these special elections, especially when a Republican has to leave because of some scandal or being indicted or whatever. Or like in Alaska, where the Republican congressman this past year died and in the special election, a native Alaskan, a woman wins, a Democrat. If we really are still willing to fight, if we are still willing to put up the best candidates, how do they hang on if they only are ahead by four votes in the House now? Four votes. What that means is if two Republicans change their mind or don’t show up or just vote present — it’s a tie vote. They’ve got to hold all the 220 Republicans together and always vote the same way every time. And there are good at that. There’s no doubt about that. But we live in a different time. We live in a strange time. And nothing, nothing should be assumed here. And we should stand ready to take back the House during these two years. 

[00:25:16] That’s it for my podcast today. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Thanks to my producer, Angela Vargos. Thanks to all of you who listened. Everybody who supports us, to all of you who are subscribers, free subscribers, paid subscribers. It’s a good, good gift for the holiday season here to give a paid subscription to a family member or friend, and help support the work we do — or just become a free subscriber and make sure you get all my written things each week on my Substack. It’s a privilege to be able to speak to you on this level. I love hearing from you. I read every email I receive and I listen to every voicemail you leave for me. The link is right here on your podcast page. 

[00:26:03] Be well. December is literally around the corner and there’s work to do. My love and appreciation to all of you. And we’ll talk soon. This is Michael Moore and this is Rumble.